Does anyone know or has anyone ever heard of someone taking out the auto out of a 300D and adding a stick? I would think that the 4 speed mercedes manual would be easy for someone to put in once the auto was taken out. Does the 300D have a computer that would have to be modified because the auto was taken out?

thanks,
mike

You would want a 5 speed in there, wich is a pretty rare transmission. You would need to run clutch lines, new drivesaft and maybe new rear end. But its probably worth the work.

John

I once put a 318 Dodge engine out of a Dodge Dart with an automatic transmission into a dodge pick up with a manual . The end of the crank where the flywheel bolts on had a cast hole but was not machined for the pilot bearing. I very carefully ground it to fit a pilot bearing .definitely a touch and go operation....
William Rogers....

Hi,

Don't want to discourage you but whay about looking for 300D Euro model? Their is one on Ebay right now.

They are very rare. I have never seen a turbodiesel with manual. I am not sure why... but seems like an killer combo.

I see your problem fitting a cluch pedal to the interior of the car thats going to get the job done without problems.

Better yet.. find the euro project and transfer you good stuff to it.

I think their are some better options to consider first.

Later,

Morph

I agree, I would love to have a turbo 300D with a manual transmission. This would be my ideal 123 car.

The manual from a 240D would mate to the engine okay. There is a difference in the rear of an automatic crankshaft and a manual crankshaft, but I understand that a pilot bearing can be fitted in some way, you would want to research this part thoroughly before proceeding.

Once the transmission is mated, the other problems you will run into will be: driveshaft will be the wrong length, you will probably have to have one fabricated, transmission mount will be in the wrong place, this probably won't be a big problem to overcome, shift rods will be the wrong length, you will have to fabricate new ones.

Every time I have thought about this one, there are a number of people who discourage me from doing such a swap. I may do it someday, however.

Good luck,

I used to import grey market cars during the early 80's (the last car I did was my 1986 190E 2.3-16) when the dollar was gaining on the Deutsch Mark. Anyway, I have the price list for the passenger and special purpose cars (ambulances and the like) published by Mercedes-Benz listing the cars they sold in Germany then, and the various options each could be ordered with, including prices in DM.

Strange, but the only 300 Turbo sold in Germany to the German market through at least 1984 was the wagon, and it was not made with a manual transmission ("5-Gang Mittelschaltung" the only manual transmission option for any 1984 Mercedes listed is noted as "nicht lieferbar" or "not deliverable" meaning you can not order this option on the car you are looking at in the book).

However, the regular 300D was made with a an optional 5-speed, so unless the driveshaft arrangement on the turbo/automatic transmission combination is different than a 5-speed 300D I would think the driveshaft problem could be solved by using the non-turbo parts. All the parts should be available in Germany, so that means you can get them here (I could help as I grew up there and have friends that still live in Munich who have sent me parts for my cars, as well as the cars I imported in the past).

I would think there might be enough of us that would want this "option" that a kit might be worth developing for a half dozen of us nuts.

Just a thought. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

All,

As I see the problem... it's not a problem of getting the parts. The problem is mounting the clutch hardware (ie pedal) within the car itself.

The abuse a clutch pedal must take daily is my concern with this project. The interior chasis may not be setup to support this option effectively. Can it be done... sure. Will it last?? I donno.. and that's my concern.

I am not smart with all 'MB' products yet to answer this question.

Morph

The mechanical bits and parts for the changeout, including the pedal and supports, the hydraulic cylinder and lines, and so on would all come from a 240D or Euro 300D. Why make up new stuff? Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Jim,

Is the chassis the same with both the euro and usa models? If so, great, then you can still the parts from those.

My concern is the interior mounting holes, brackets, etc..

Morph

Morph,

Once I take delivery of my 1985 300D Turbo later this week, I will check it out. I will be visiting my daughter in Troy, New York and she has my 1982 240D, which has a manual transmission. I will try to contort myself into a position to see how and if the pedal mounting hardware is installed differently. I am under the assumption that the only pedal that really gets stomped on and is supported by the pedal mounting pedestal is the brake pedal. The clutch is hydraulic and does not add a lot of moment to the attachment points, so it seams reasonable that the pedestal mount to the car structure is the same, with the features for a clutch pedal added on the manual transmission version. Someone out there might already know the story though. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Okay, think what you will, but I don't believe its possible to put a manual in a 300 Turbo. It may bolt up, sure, but it won't work well for long. The 617.952 block took years to tame before Mercedes deemed it civilized for safe passenger car use. A big part of the car's refinement is in its automatic/turbo set-up. The turbo and transmission are matched to a great degree. A conversion would butcher the car, making less drivable than you may think. Give me flack for it, but I'm saying its not possible in a way that will keep the car reliable, enjoyable and drivable.

If you want a manual car, buy a BMW or Porsche, or drive the Merc manually through the gates.... Believe me, Merc manuals are not as enjoyable as say BMW Getrags and Porsche ZF boxes. Driving a Merc manual is like rowing a boat with rubbery ores, not as pleasing as the plebian Miata or 3 series.

You may not want to hear it, but its true. While dependable, I just don't think Merc manuals inspire confidence, at least they aren't known for it! Their clutch uptake isn't all that and Mercedes cars are so solid and heavy, you really don't need the manual. You would burn through clutches more than you may think on American roads.

A manual 300D Turbo would greatly ruin the dynamics of what is really a well balanced car. My opinion, try it and you will see.

Heh, easier to start when the battery is dead, boy do I remember that trick w/ the Jetta
Personally I'd like a 5 speed in my 300D, but like Randall Kress said, the Turbo and Automatic are mated pretty well. Course we'll never know how well a 5 speed and a 300DT go together till some one tries it.

__________________
2005 Audi A4 1.8T CVT -Silver/Black "Siegfried"

1982 300D - Silver/Blue "Ralph" -For Sale:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-cars-sale/119226-1982-300d-sale.html#post852260

1989 VW Diesel Jetta Blue/Blue "Bodo" RIP

I've seen this anti MB manual transmission argument on mercedesshop several times in the past.

I have owned and driven zillions of different cars including BMW's and Porshes and have owned and now own a number of MB manuals. The argument that the MB manual is somehow inferior to the others, simply doesn't wash with me. I've driven MB manuals close to a million miles and have enjoyed EVERY SINGLE SHIFT thoroughly. In addition to that, I have NEVER had the least bit of trouble from an MB manual, only clutch replacements, which, of course, are part of driving a manual. Clutches are wearable parts like brakes.

I go to a lot of trouble to seek out manual transmission cars. It took me about two years to find my '88 300E manual. And I finally bought another new MB when they finally decided to pay me the courtesy of selling me the W203 C Class with a six speed transmission.

The manual transmission MB's I've had over the years have been:

'68 230
'77 240D
'80 240D
'81 240D
'84 240D
'88 300E
'01 C240

They have all been flawless as far as the transmissions go, both enjoyment of operation and reliability.

Sorry to take issue,

Tastes aside, a manual 300D Turbo would not be a smooth ride. Its hard enough for the S-class automatic to smooth the car, I don't care if your Mario Adretti, the car will be down right harsh. I am sure Mercedes tried the manual in the 300D back in the day, they didn't offer one for a reason, in fact, they have never offered a turbo charged diesel in a stick, not even in Europe!

Case in point, when the w124 300E came out, they offered a manual. Albeit not a great seller, you can't say they didn't offer the 300D in a stick for it wouldn't be the volume leader. It just didn't work!

I second Larry's experience and opinion. I think the generally negative comments come from people with little actual Mercedes manual transmission driving time. The coordination of the chassis, engine and transmission (weight of the car, handling, torque curve, shift points, clutch action and shift patterns/throws) by Mercedes is flawless, once you get the feel of the car.

The clutches are hydraulically operated, which makes the clutch something that takes some getting used to initially if you come from a cable operated set up, but it allows the clutch to be extremely robust. My 190E 2.3-16 still has its original clutch, and I average more than 180,000 miles per clutch on my Diesels. I have actually never had one wear out and slip yet, they usually fall to oil leaking past the rear seal. The clutch operation is near effortless, making stop and go traffic easy on the left leg, yet you get used to its action and can shift smoothly and quickly. And it never needs adjusting.

As I noted Mercedes does a very good job of matching the character of the car and the transmission. My 190E, while having a similarly shaped shift knob to the Diesel, has a different pattern and throw as well as shift points and overall tempo than that car. The balance of all these features are accommodated without sacrificing durability. I have never had a transmission component fail.

So, I am sure there are a lot of people with a favorite transmission, like an Acura or a BMW, that they feel are "better" than the Mercedes-Benz units. They can cite a number of reasons for their preferences, which, in some cases are probably justified. But there is no reason to suggest the Mercedes units are deficient and do not contribute to the driver's control of the vehicle, which in my view is the main benefit of a manual transmission.

While I would like to drive a 300D Turbo of the W123 variety with a manual transmission, mainly because I would like to see if I can do a better job shifting than the beastly automatic it comes with, I suspect Mercedes had some rationale for not making that combination available. It is more peculiar that the 300D Turbo Sedan was never sold in Germany (only the wagon was available, and that also only came with an automatic transmission). It is possible that the car and engine were intended mainly for the US market, and the cost to develop a suitable transmission for that market was deemed a poor use of corporate funds. Or it could be that it was more of a challenge to make the machine civilized as someone suggested in an earlier post. Unless someone tries it we will never know. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)