What is the stock w123 ride height? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Yak · #1 10-08-2009, 08:07 PM

I've searched the forum and looked at the W123 wheel pics and I can't decide if my car is abnormally high, or just looks that way to me. Some of the pics in the 123 wheels thread have a similarly large fender gap, but according to the specs, my car is more than 1.5 inches too high. My pics lack some perspective and appear even worse than it looks with the whole car in view.

I've got the stock "short" spring for the coupe with the red bottom coil. Everything else is as stock as can be. Goodyear 195/70-14's on Bundt's. 16.5 inches from wheel center to fender lip, 31.75 at hood and fender.
The FSM says to "Check level at front axle 40-300" Does anyone have the portion of the FSM that includes chapter 40 above job # 113? Mine stops at 113.

What am I missing to get the car back to it's stock height? My last best-guess effort will be to loosen the UCA, LCA and torsion bar bolts and see if it'll settle. I did that when I installed them thought, so I don't have much hope that will do much.

I still haven't got it aligned and I'd like to get the height sorted out before alignment. If I can't sort it myself, I plan on leaving it to the dealer.

Brandon_SLC · #2 10-08-2009, 09:19 PM

That doesn't look right. They do sit high by todays standards, but not that high. Somethings got to be wrong.

But looks great for offroading!

MBeige · #3 10-09-2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

I've searched the forum and looked at the W123 wheel pics and I can't decide if my car is abnormally high, or just looks that way to me. Some of the pics in the 123 wheels thread have a similarly large fender gap, but according to the specs, my car is more than 1.5 inches too high. My pics lack some perspective and appear even worse than it looks with the whole car in view.

I've got the stock "short" spring for the coupe with the red bottom coil. Everything else is as stock as can be. Goodyear 195/70-14's on Bundt's. 16.5 inches from wheel center to fender lip, 31.75 at hood and fender.
The FSM says to "Check level at front axle 40-300" Does anyone have the portion of the FSM that includes chapter 40 above job # 113? Mine stops at 113.

What am I missing to get the car back to it's stock height? My last best-guess effort will be to loosen the UCA, LCA and torsion bar bolts and see if it'll settle. I did that when I installed them thought, so I don't have much hope that will do much.

I still haven't got it aligned and I'd like to get the height sorted out before alignment. If I can't sort it myself, I plan on leaving it to the dealer.

An alignment would probably fix the front camber, which might make it look too high. I've had that problem before and the tire shoulders were wearing out too soon. Had new tires installed, alignment done and all was well. This was how my car stood around that time with stock setup after getting new tires and the alignment (2 nub in front):

After getting the 15" Bundts and new Michelins (205/60/15), but still with 2 nub in front. Not much difference. Now that I travel light without much in the trunk, the rear end sits slightly higher than it is in the image below.

This is TheBenzBar's 300CD with new shocks all around installed and 1 nub in front I think (or 2)

I'm not sure if 4 nub is the standard setup, I think those are for the heavy duty suspension setup or lang (long) version. Mine is stock with 2 nub front pads. The 81 300TD we had before had 1 nub front pads on KYB shocks, but sat lower:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/legomech/MercedesBenz300TD/June-3-2006/p1010027.jpg

katchung · #4 10-08-2009, 08:57 PM

my 82 300cd seems to be about a half inch to an inch high in the rear...haven't checked the front yet. Funny, because I was just thinking about this today...wondering if my springs were tired...guess not.

Yak · #5 10-12-2009, 08:55 PM

Attached is a pic, with some perspective this time, of my car.

I thought my car looked too high, and based on the 760 mm recommended trunk/height height from the blue print, the measurements backed that up. But now I'm not so sure. I made some small changes, had the dealer look at it while being aligned and it doesn't look as bad now. 4 wheel alignment at the dealer, MB of San Antonio costs $140.

Equipment: stock "red" springs, 4 nub/23 mm pads in front, Bilstein B36-0703 on the front, B46-1184 on the rear; Goodyear 195/70-14's w/ 34 psi.

Car is an '83 300CD w/ 283,000.

In the earlier "off-road look" pics, the hood and trunk heights are more/less level at 806 mm (31.75 in), front wheel center to fender rim is 16.5 in. I did not take other measurements. The tank was near empty with approx 3.5 gals based on a previous repair where I drained the tank.

I added what I though would be about a half tank or 6.5 gals. The approx 10 gals in the tank only took the gauge up to 3/8, BTW. I remeasured.

Data with car in unaligned, FSM neutral spec on suspension and 10 gals fuel:

Trunk/hood height @ 30.5 to 30.75 inches; front wheel center to fender @ 15.625 to 15.75. Rear center-fender @ 14.25 - 14.375. Floor to front @ 27. Floor to rear @ 25.875. Observation: 6.5 gallons of diesel dropped the car by about an inch.

Data with car unaligned, after loosening the UCA, LCA and torsion bar was essentially unchanged. Observation: if you're sure you did it right the first time, repeating the action won't make much difference.

Took the car to the dealer for alignment. A parts guy I've been working with complimented the car on its "upright" stance without being lowered or on saggy springs. He thought it would have a two or three nub pad, not the four it has. I don't have the alignment specs, but the lobe on the eccentric bolt was rotated from the 6 o'clock position where I had it inboard by a little more than one clock position on each side for a mild camber change. Burned maybe one gallon of gas on the round trip.

Measurements: Trunk @ 30.75, hood @ 30.5; front center-fender @15.75; rear center-fender @ 14.625; floor-front fender @ 26.75; floor-rear fender @ 25.875. Observation: a mild camber change may have made a little difference possibly offset by the gallon of fuel.

Conclusion: with the FSM parts, the car looks like it rides a little high. Weight seems to have a major factor with an empty car riding high and a loaded car probably about right, for appearance anyway. 760 mm is probably not the stock height for an "unloaded" car, but may be for a fully fueled car. I'd guess an extra half tank of fuel would probably compress the springs another inch.

The attached pic is of the final configuration on a nearly level street with a slight crown, about 9 gallons fuel or just over 1/4 tank.

Yak · #6 10-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Per the FSM, the only options for the 123.153 were short/long springs. No changes were required for extra equipment. Pre-1982 there were more combinations.

The FSM says 23 mm is the stock pad height for the front spring. EPC says 4 "burls" = 23 mm. The rear pad is 14 mm and that's two "naps". (I don't make up the words, I just repeat what I see written: nub=nap=burl). This is for the "short" spring with the red end. The "long" spring with the blue end uses an 18 mm pad and a 9.5 mm pad (3 and 1 nub/front and rear, respectively.

I'll do a before/during/after pic series with the car in profile.

No one has the book answer on how to measure the height at the front axle?

MBeige · #7 10-09-2009, 09:26 PM

I happen to have one with a red end, but as I mentioned earlier I have 2 nub/burl/naps on the front spring pads.

Do you have a side photo of your car?

I have another blueprint, but not of the turbo model:

DeliveryValve · #8 10-10-2009, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBeige

I happen to have one with a red end, but as I mentioned earlier I have 2 nub/burl/naps on the front spring pads.

Hey Patrick,

I was wondering why you had the 2 nub. But now it is clear, you have different springs than mine (got the blue mark). I thought we basically had the same optioned car, different color.

Anycase, when you get a chance I am curious as what the wire size is on your car's coils. You should take some measurements when you get a chance.

.

MBeige · #9 10-10-2009, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve

Hey Patrick,

I was wondering why you had the 2 nub. But now it is clear, you have different springs than mine (got the blue mark). I thought we basically had the same optioned car, different color.

Anycase, when you get a chance I am curious as what the wire size is on your car's coils. You should take some measurements when you get a chance.

.

That is interesting Richard. It makes sense though, thinner pads give more room for longer springs. But is ride height affected that much?

Looking at the lovely photos you took of the differential DIY, I have the red marked rear springs. Been a while since I looked at the rear spring pads, but it may be 2 or 1.

So similarly optioned cars can have different suspension setup (in terms of spring and/or pad options). I wonder how to figure that out other than taking a look? I know they can be swapped but it would be nice to determine what should have come with the car when they were new. I don't think the VIN decoder has that info.

DeliveryValve · #10 10-10-2009, 03:37 AM

Yes it would be nice to figure that out.

Another note, I remember you saying you had Bilsteins shocks as originally installed on your car. Mine came with Boge shocks. I wonder if that means anything.

MBeige · #11 10-10-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve

Yes it would be nice to figure that out.

Another note, I remember you saying you had Bilsteins shocks as originally installed on your car. Mine came with Boge shocks. I wonder if that means anything.

When my uncle and I replaced the front guide rod mounts, we had to disconnect the shock absorbers. I had a chance to take a good look to realize they were Bilstein, and had the MB logo on them. Probably the originals, and still very strong too.

Sev · #12 10-10-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBeige

That is interesting Richard. It makes sense though, thinner pads give more room for longer springs. But is ride height affected that much?

Looking at the lovely photos you took of the differential DIY, I have the red marked rear springs. Been a while since I looked at the rear spring pads, but it may be 2 or 1.

So similarly optioned cars can have different suspension setup (in terms of spring and/or pad options). I wonder how to figure that out other than taking a look? I know they can be swapped but it would be nice to determine what should have come with the car when they were new. I don't think the VIN decoder has that info.

pad thickness was meant to fine-tune the ride height, not meant from the factory to allow for longer springs in terms of overall sprung length.

Yak · #13 10-12-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBeige

So similarly optioned cars can have different suspension setup (in terms of spring and/or pad options). I wonder how to figure that out other than taking a look? I know they can be swapped but it would be nice to determine what should have come with the car when they were new. I don't think the VIN decoder has that info.

The FSM has copious spring data based on model/country/option. 12 pages on the front springs alone, 4 on the rear and another 2 pages of spring technical data. Sections 32-220, 32-240 and 32-250.

If you want specific info, PM me and pull the data out. I'd need year, model code (e.g. 123.153 for my Coupe) and options including A/C, sunroof, tranny, power steering, police equipment, supplemental heater and ABS (and if you're driving a police equipped W123 w/ ABS I wanna know about it). I'd scan the tables, but the files would be huge to make the small print legible.

The pad height is one factor for ride height, and usually only a few mm, but it could be as much as 15 mm if you went from thickest to skinniest. The other factors will be spring length and compression. FSM values range from a soft 27 mm per 1000 N compression for thin coils (14.3 mm) to 17.1 mm/1000 N for the beefy 16.2 coils. There are 8 different factory springs for the front with different lengths and compression rates.

Pics and measurements from my car in the next post.

MBeige · #14 10-10-2009, 03:09 AM

Did a quick look at Detali.ru with EPC diagrams. It looks like the 300CD (123.153) in turbo form has 4 front spring pad options (1/2/3/4 nubs).

8 A 123 321 13 84 SHIM
AS REQUIRED; NUMBER OF BURLS:
1 (8 MM) 002
8 A 123 321 14 84 SHIM
AS REQUIRED; NUMBER OF BURLS:
2 (13 MM) 002
8 A 123 321 15 84 SHIM
AS REQUIRED; NUMBER OF BURLS:
3 (18 MM) 002
8 A 123 321 16 84 SHIM
AS REQUIRED; NUMBER OF BURLS:
4 (23 MM)

Rashakor · #15 10-12-2009, 09:27 PM

on an interesting note:
My moroccan 300TD is actually set from Factory at 810mm (so 2inches higher than stock) and 15" steelies (which weight a monumental 24lb each).
Lebanese and Tunisian version of the 240D also seemed to be equipped similarly with raised suspenssions... maybe an adaptation to rough roads.