This would be cool OM6XX to 700R4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bennett · #1 11-30-2009, 12:04 AM

I hope this is not a re post,( did a search) just came across this and thought it would be cool to have a 700R4 behind a Mercedes Diesel in some project...

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Mercedes%20diesel.htm

I have a low mile OM 617 and was thinking about putting it in a Land Cruiser.

retmil46 · #2 11-30-2009, 01:51 AM

It says "Mercedes 5 Cylinder Diesel to 700R4" - and I'm guessing he'd be referring to a 617, not a 602.

Dang, what I wouldn't give if he could make one for a 603 - imagine an 87 300D with a 0.70 final gear in front of that 2.65 rear end, a lockup converter, and a set of 205/70 tires - 35 mpg without even trying and it would flat-out haul posterior.

pawoSD · #3 11-30-2009, 01:58 AM

Wow....that is a pretty cool kit! Is that transmission "overall" superior to the 722.303? And, sure the kit will attach the trans to the engine, but will the trans attach to the MB drive-shaft/flex disc/trans mount bracket unmodified? And, will the 700R4 even fit in a MB?

lefrisbee · #4 11-30-2009, 02:44 AM

That's a nice kit but like the above posters I'm a little worried about the lack of information.

Also, as far as the OM617 is concerned, I'm not sure this is a good pairing. The fourth gear overdrive is nice but it seems like the 700R4 would kill acceleration. And if that's what you want, it would probably be easier to swap the rear differential.

bennett · #5 11-30-2009, 11:14 AM

Would the 700r4 bolt pattern be the same as turbo 350's0 400's and manual, trans?
The use of Turbo350 would be alot shorter for some conversions

dagObx · #6 11-30-2009, 03:05 PM

I just wrote them an email about the 603.xxx. Who knows, maybe I'll get an answer. Will post when/if I do.
I am definately interested if they do make such a thing.....

compu_85 · #7 11-30-2009, 03:16 PM

It would be nice enough just to have a locking torque converter on the existing trans. Doesn't the 5 speed auto get one? As I understand it that transmission is just the 722.3 plus an extra gear.

-Jason

DeliveryValve · #8 11-30-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennett

Would the 700r4 bolt pattern be the same as turbo 350's0 400's and manual, trans?
The use of Turbo350 would be alot shorter for some conversions

Yes they are the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefrisbee

T......
Also, as far as the OM617 is concerned, I'm not sure this is a good pairing. The fourth gear overdrive is nice but it seems like the 700R4 would kill acceleration. And if that's what you want, it would probably be easier to swap the rear differential.

Agreed. The problem is the TH700R4/4L60E, TH350, and TH400 essentially are essentially 3 speeds. With TH700R4/4L60E having 4th as the overdrive.
The ratios are too high for our diesels. Plus there is a huge difference between the first and second gear, compared to the 722.3xx.

Their ratios are as follows.

TH700R4
FIRST GEAR 3.06:1
SECOND GEAR 1.63:1
THIRD GEAR 1:01
FOURTH GEAR 0.70:1

TH350
FIRST GEAR 2.52:1
SECOND GEAR 1.52:1
THIRD GEAR 1:01
FOURTH GEAR N/A

TH400
FIRST GEAR 2.48:1
SECOND GEAR 1.48:1
THIRD GEAR 1:01
FOURTH GEAR N/A

722.3xx for the 617.95x are as follows.
FIRST GEAR 3.68:1
SECOND GEAR 2.41:1
THIRD GEAR 1:44:1
FOURTH GEAR 1:1

The GM trans ratio info are found here. It has an explanation on how these ratios are related to rear wheel torque values.

.

retmil46 · #9 11-30-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compu_85

It would be nice enough just to have a locking torque converter on the existing trans. Doesn't the 5 speed auto get one? As I understand it that transmission is just the 722.3 plus an extra gear.

-Jason

Yep, that's all the early 90's version of a 5 speed is - a 722.3 with an overdrive unit tacked on. And from what I've heard, "tacked on" is the correct expression in more ways than one.

I'd actually started looking into the feasibility of putting one of these into my 87 300D, but my tranny guru talked me out of it - according to him, as reliable as the 722.3 is, the 5 speed version goes to the other extreme - said he'd seen nothing but problems out of them, as if MB had simply welded on the overdrive part without any thought or development. His recommendation was to either stick with the 4 speed 722.3, or go whole hog and install one of the late 90's electronically controlled 5 speeds with a stand-alone controller.

Also, from what I remember, the early 90's 5 speed version DOES NOT have a lockup torque converter.

Still, I'd be interested if they say they can do a 603.XXX adapter, and the question of mating the output end of the tranny to the MB driveline could be worked out - especially if he could do one for a late 90's electronic MB 5 speed tranny (I would think that would minimize adapability problems), or something like a 545RFE to where you could actually reprogram the gear ratios to match the engine and rear end.

At that, while a 616 or 617 might not have enough grunt to overcome that jump from 1st to 2nd on a 700R4 (essentially from 1st to 3rd on a 722.3), a turbo 603 might have enough in the male endowment dept to handle that gap if one doesn't get carried away when taking off. That lockup converter and 0.70 cruising gear would certainly be desireable on the interstate.

dealwithit · #10 11-30-2009, 10:42 PM

the site also says "the 2.8L 700r4" so you would need one from a v6 s10, and i don't think they came with a th350 or th400. also you couldn't use a gm 5spd trans as the clutch wouldn't work with anything

that would make for a cool 4x4 tho, a s10 with a om617 in it!

DeliveryValve · #11 12-01-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealwithit

the site also says "the 2.8L 700r4" so you would need one from a v6 s10, and i don't think they came with a th350 or th400. also you couldn't use a gm 5spd trans as the clutch wouldn't work with anything

...

Good catch. The 2.5L 4 cylinder and the 60º V6 2.8L & 3.1L engine TH-700R4 versions has a smaller bellhousing pattern and they were never mated to a TH-350 or TH-400. But they were mated to a T5 manual trans.

.

rick surgent · #12 12-01-2009, 08:10 AM

put a 200r4 / 2004r in a few old muscle cars (after alot of beefing up) Im going to call and see if they can accomodate it. Tighter gear spacing and smaller size with locking converter.

whipplem104 · #13 12-01-2009, 10:31 AM

I can help with putting in the 722.6 5speed from the '97 and up mercedes in. It is a direct bolt up to the om602, 603, 606. I have a customer who made a adapter plate for the om617 which could be copied if interested. I am currently running this setup in my w123 with a om602 and a 5speed. I am getting average mileage on my daily commute of 28-30 mpg and highway miles of around 32-35 mpg while cruising at 70mph most of the time.
The overdrive is .83 if I remember correctly and the gear ratios are nice for acceleration.

dagObx · #14 12-01-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

I can help with putting in the 722.6 5speed from the '97 and up mercedes in. It is a direct bolt up to the om602, 603, 606. I have a customer who made a adapter plate for the om617 which could be copied if interested. I am currently running this setup in my w123 with a om602 and a 5speed. I am getting average mileage on my daily commute of 28-30 mpg and highway miles of around 32-35 mpg while cruising at 70mph most of the time.
The overdrive is .83 if I remember correctly and the gear ratios are nice for acceleration.

Could you provide more info on this swap? Is the drive shaft replaced since the trans is likely longer than the standard 722? Any real issues? Etc.?

retmil46 · #15 12-01-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

I can help with putting in the 722.6 5speed from the '97 and up mercedes in. It is a direct bolt up to the om602, 603, 606. I have a customer who made a adapter plate for the om617 which could be copied if interested. I am currently running this setup in my w123 with a om602 and a 5speed. I am getting average mileage on my daily commute of 28-30 mpg and highway miles of around 32-35 mpg while cruising at 70mph most of the time.
The overdrive is .83 if I remember correctly and the gear ratios are nice for acceleration.

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! My previous tranny guru had no idea about whether or not you'd need an adapter plate, fab of output yoke/driveshaft/tranny mounts, stand alone controller, etc. But now obviously it can be done.

Any info you can share on some of the more obvious questions, such as type of controller for the tranny, changes to tranny mounts, adapting to the driveline, etc?