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  #1  
Old 12-05-2009, 06:34 PM
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Exclamation Car wont shut off AT ALL!

Man.... Every week it is something with this car. I went to put the new (used) rear end yesterday and gave up because of the rain.

Today the wife has it out driving around shopping. She pulls into the parking lot and the car won't shut off. So, she opens the hood and hits the stop lever to shut it off. No problem, I'll deal with it later. So, then she goes to go to a different mall and no brakes. She pulls it into a parking space to shut it off and it will not shut off with the key. So, she gets out to hit the stop lever and it is difficult to shut off there too? Had to block the intake with a rag. What gives?

So, she gets home and same problem. I grab my mighty vac and check for leaks. A/C no problem, door locks good, reservoir no problems, modulator bleeds off but VERY, VERY slow, VCV no problems.

What do you guys think? A problem with the large vacuum supply line, vacuum pump, brake booster failed internally?
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:01 PM
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Well you know the basics I'm sure, just you are a little fed-up with this vehicle right now.
your thoughts are all over. Grab your vacuum Gauge, and start by checking the main vacuum line
to see what kind of vacuum your pulling, it could be a bad vacuum pump check valve,for a start ?
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Last edited by Mazootpusher; 12-05-2009 at 09:42 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:02 PM
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Sounds to me like the vacuum pump is shot.

Remove the brake booster vacuum hose and plug all other vacuum ports and check for vacuum at the end of the main hose.
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:02 PM
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Can you replicate the no shut-down in your driveway. If so you can troubleshoot the vac system from there. Could be the pump I suppose, but may just be leak somewhere else (although, it sounds like you covered some ground there). Make sure you don't have any oil in the vac lines that might be screwing with things. You might pull the instrument cluster and test the shut off valve at the ignition - but if you are having brake problems too, it probably isn't that. Hmmmm.
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazootpusher View Post
Well you know the basics I'm sure, just you are a little fed-up with this vehicle right now.
your thoughts are all over. Grab your vacuum Gage, and start by checking the main vacuum line
to see what kind of vacuum your pulling, it could be a bad vacuum pump check valve,for a start ?
That brings up another question that I never really thought of until now. The vacuum for the transmission transducer comes right off the main line before the check valve. Everything else comes off the main line after the check valve. Is this right? It looks right by the vacuum diagram, but I have removed some things (EGR and ARV).

Also, what should vacuum be off the main line before the check valve? 20 in.HG? More or Less?


Edit: OK... I just went through the entire vacuum diagram. According to what I read, the vacuum transducer for the transmission should in fact receive vacuum after the check valve and all of the accessories should receive vacuum from the main line BEFORE the check valve. So, it is backwards. But, it has worked fine since I have owned the car. The PO replaced a lot of vacuum tubing under the hood and probably screwed it up. I should have checked it all when I removed the EGR/ARV lines. Still it worked before. So something is still wrong. I'm going to do some more troubleshooting in the AM.
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Last edited by snookwhaler; 12-05-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:28 PM
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At least 20" Hg and could easily be 25" Hg with a good pump and no leaks. You can also check the vacuum shutoff on the IP using a Mityvac to make sure the shutoff is working. It has a diaphragm that can leak/rupture.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
At least 20" Hg and could easily be 25" Hg with a good pump and no leaks. You can also check the vacuum shutoff on the IP using a Mityvac to make sure the shutoff is working. It has a diaphragm that can leak/rupture.

Thanks. I was not sure of those #'s. I did not check the shut off valve (duh). I should have checked that first. I forgot in my panic.

I switched those 2 lines around on the main line and went for a drive (could not wait till morning). I ran the defrost, the heat, cycled the locks about 20 times and shut if off with the heat on and it shut right off? I did it several times and it shut right off. No problems with the brakes and no oil in the lines either?

I don't know. I'll do some closer looking in the daytime.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:02 PM
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The stop lever has nothing to do with the vacuum system, so if that wasn't working you've got another issue... I don't have too much experience with the fuel system so maybe someone else can chime in, but the depressing the stop lever should cut off all fuel to the IP so there's no way the car should keep running. Either your throttle linkage is out of whack, your engine is sucking in oil from somewhere, or whatever valve in the IP is supposed to be cutting off the fuel isn't doing its job.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81Wagon View Post
The stop lever has nothing to do with the vacuum system, so if that wasn't working you've got another issue... I don't have too much experience with the fuel system so maybe someone else can chime in, but the depressing the stop lever should cut off all fuel to the IP so there's no way the car should keep running. Either your throttle linkage is out of whack, your engine is sucking in oil from somewhere, or whatever valve in the IP is supposed to be cutting off the fuel isn't doing its job.
That is what I thought. She could not say if she pushed the STOP lever all the way to the valve cover or not. I suspect that she only pushed it half way. I just went out and did this after my drive and it stops immediately with the lever. I forgot to post that above.

This is frustrating because now this means that it is intermittent.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:53 PM
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When you ran the climate control unit, did you hit every single button? If there's a leak in one of the vacuum actuators (or the solenoid valve they're connected through) it might only show up on certain settings. And even then it might only happen for a few seconds (I guess the CCU will turn the solenoid back off after enough time to open or close the actuator has passed).

At least, that's how it worked for me when I was troubleshooting the shutdown problems my 300SD was having. It was quite frustrating tracking down the leaks! It turned out three of the solenoid valves behind the climate control unit were leaking like crazy. Replacing them fixed all my problems (but I never had any issues with my brakes).
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:31 PM
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I'm guessing a sticky check valve in the vacuum pump causing both lack of brakes and no shut off. Valve is now working hence you can't get the problem to repeat.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2009, 12:38 AM
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Have you tried isolating the brake booster? I found out mine was bad when I unscrewed the main line at the booster, plugged it with my thumb and had my kid turn off the key. It was giving me an intermittent slow shut down. The pump could just barely keep up with the leak.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2009, 02:06 AM
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snook,

i agree with what others have said. if you are having brake issues and vacuum problems...it must be the brake booster, vacuum pump, or vac pump check valve.

If not shutting off with the lever, it is indeed a separate issue.

Your wife knows to stuff a rag in an intake to shut the car down? Thats pretty cool.

dd
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2009, 08:15 AM
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great woman

Keep her around! Though she may not have known/pushed the stop lever in all the way, at least she popped the hood and found a way to kill the engine! She can probably become a helper wilst you work on the car if you promise her a manicure afterward
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2009, 09:49 AM
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You guys are talking about the vacuum pump check valve? I assume that is inside the pump? How do I test that?

Also, is there an easy way to test the brake booster?

Here is my plan for today... Pull the big vacuum line and plug both ends to check for leaks in that main line on both sides of the check valve. Go over the vacuum schematic and trace every line to be sure the orifices are in the proper position and lines and not crossed, pull vacuum on the shut off valve, check lines under dash and be shure none have "pulled loose", isolate the climate control system with a golf tee (for now) and replace all short pieces of vacuum tubing as I go.

Thanks for the input! Any other ideas besides the questions above are greatly appreciated!
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