Sometimes I just want to buy a Honda...

[rwthomas1]

I just returned from a vacation in Florida and if you have read any of my posts recently you will see I had some issues with my '84 300D. I have felt this way before but I think I may be approaching the breaking point. I spent a good deal of money finding a nice clean 123. And I have spent even more money and endless hours trying to keep after the issues but it just won't seem to quit. I keep hoping that the next major issues will be the last but it never seems to be. About two months ago I R&R'd the cylinder head to replace a bad headgasket and did the usual rebuild/valve job, chain guides, tensioner, etc. Just 3 weeks ago I rebuilt the entire suspension, every piece of rubber is new, front to rear. The ride is now excellent. But I digress. I have replaced so many major components that I am wondering why I am bothering. To date:
shocks
2 front calipers
waterpump
aux pump
monovalve
2 sets of axles
rear window gasket
2 trim pieces
rebuilt seats
replaced CC system
rebuilt master cylinder
motor mounts
engine shocks
clean/check injectors
headlight switch
shifter bushings
front wheel bearings
tierods
drag link
upper control arms/balljoints
lower balljoints/bushings
track rod bushings and mounts
rear control arm bushings
rear subframe mounts
differential mount
front swaybar bushings
rear swaybar links
rebuilt power antenna

Still needs doing:
fix leaking heater core
fix possible damage to axles/hubs from loose bolts
fix ACC leak, no heat to floor, vacuum leak-harsh shifts, etc.
fix seeping oil lines
replace exhaust-recently found rear muffler has hole, downpipe is pretty rusty.
rubber brakelines are showing dryrot
radiator

I have not included all the normall wear items, belts, brake pads, adjustments, etc. that have needed to be done. I have and have had other vehicles with more miles and similar age with far fewer issues than the MB. The added complexity of MB designs only exacerbates the issues when the systems get old and fail. I really like the way the car drives, the styling, etc. but it is starting to get me down when every time I drive it another issue pops up. I don't enjoy driving it anymore. Thankfully I can let it sit in the garage untill I feel like working on it. I may even pay a decent indy I know to just fix the problems for me. I do know many people how own Toyotas, Hondas, and dare I say it, even some domestics that don't have these constant issues. Yes the MB is older but it has been babied its whole life, I have the records to prove it. Its just proving to me that the "garage queen" reputation is not undeserved. Its pretty bad when Camrys and Accords start looking good..... I'm just tired of wrenching on this thing. RT

[Brian Carlton]

The SDL decided to run all of its brake fluid out of the rear reservoir again; presumably out of a leaking bleeder valve on the LR caliper. This time, it made sure that it was fully emptied before I was able to drive it. No rear brakes, again. 120 mile trip into NY City

I still need to do the bushing for the rt. front stabilizer bar, if the weather would just warm up, so the damn thing doesn't pull one complete lane to the right every time I hit the brakes.

The rear springs, subframe bushings, and diff. mount all need to be replaced.

The head gasket is leaking coolant.

The combination switch needs replacement so that I can get the washers to work.

The windshield is sandblasted.

The cruise control amplifier is intermittent.

The combination relay was recently replaced and it functions properly now. Hopefully the rear window defroster will now work. It won't melt any snow, that's for sure.

There is an exhaust leak in the downpipe somewhere.


I would need another two pages to mention all the items that are on the list for the SD.

Yep, we've all been there. The attention that these vehicles demand in terms of time and parts is significant. My machinist recently purchased a 2001 Lexus LS430 for $40K. I mention the items that continually need work on the M/B and he truly thinks I am an idiot.

[Johnhef]

hey, its a labor of love.

You'd all think I was mentally retarded if I listed how much $$ I've sunk into my cars, I do get fed up with dealing with each of them from time to time, I typically will just park it for awhile and drive another one untill I start to "miss" it

[Brian Carlton]

John,

Do you really keep all seven of them maintained and running?

Doesn't this effectively become your full time job?

[JimmyL]

You know, it is funny how we romanticize these older MB's, and talk about how the motors last so long. But GM 4.3 liter engines consistantly go 200-300K in vans and such. Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas all consistantly make hundreds of thousands of miles also. Most, not all mind you. What is the big deal if our cars do that? Many others do also.
I just dig the klackity klackity klack I guess. I digress.......

[rg2098]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Yep, we've all been there. The attention that these vehicles demand in terms of time and parts is significant. My machinist recently purchased a 2001 Lexus LS430 for $40K. I mention the items that continually need work on the M/B and he truly thinks I am an idiot.

Just for the record, Cadillac cars beat Lexus (and Toyota) cars in quality this year.

[pawoSD]

I've spent oh so much on my car and I don't even care (I may be insane, but oh well) In a couple months I am going to do the oil cooler lines, and the motor mounts....then the parking brake cable, and I'll be replacing all the flex lines to the calipers as well pretty soon. Then I will be looking into the front stabilizer bar bushings at some point as well......then suspension components....then getting my dented door repaired......and maybe a paint job. I'll pour all my $$ into this car forever.

[Johnhef]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

John,

Do you really keep all seven of them maintained and running?

Doesn't this effectively become your full time job?

the 240D, 82 CD and 87 300D are the only cars I drive.
the 86 560 runs and will be listed for sale soon, I want to install a radio and cd changer in it before I sell it. No tags on it currently. Had new chain, guide rails and valve job done on it.

the 380 has been a long project I keep getting sidetracked from. Started so long ago most of the parts still reside at my parents house
the 83 coupe and 84 wagon will soon become one, my friend blew the engine in the coupe so i bought the wagon for parts.

I miss my 69 280SE still damn tree in a hurricane killed my car

[Tirebiter]

Show me another twenty year old car, except the VW beedle, that is as easy to maintain and as reliable as our old smudgpot diesels. The parts are cheap and easy to find. Problems are fairly easy to diagnose and fix by a competent DIY.

My 84 300D was a gift from a long time friend and I've put about $4,000 in parts into it. Everything works just like it did when it was new and at that time it cost someone around $50k for it.

I've had older and later MBs and none compare to the reliability of these early turbo diesels.

[83-240D]

exactly put tirebiter. where are the 20 yr old acura coupes? the lexi and infinit original cars? i don'r see many here or in the monthly trip to chgo. lots of older mbs though. i drive a school bus so i am out when cars are out and i don't see many old japanese cars.

rwt1...
if your machinist spent 40 grand on a lexus what kind of mb can you pick up for that money? have you spent 40 grand plus interest on your car yet? just remember it is paid for and has to be maintained like any 20 yr old. that is the attitude i take. its 20 yrs old and has 20 yr old issues. also rwt1 honda is coming up with an accord diesel electric. 30 grand and over 200 hp. smaller than a 123 i would guess if you want to change cars buthow many 20 yr old hondas have you seen?

Rob,
Today the sun is shining and the snow is melting away................It will STILL TAKE A WHILE
Anyway, when you get home from work today.........kick back, light up a fattie and RELAX.
Drive the TRUCK for a while.
A trip to Fla. and back will most certaintly exascerbate problems on an old oilburner. (or anything else for that matter).
Why just the other day, in the POURING RAIN....just before turning to snow, I was taking the BLACK BOMBER for a "FAST" run to Gloucester and back in an effort to "rinse" much of the most recent salt. As I went over the R/R tracks in the next town..................BAM! The exhaust BROKE just after the header pipe connection (header pipe new 2.5 years ago).......this pipe dropped and hit the train track.......the impact pushed the exhaust back and to the side.......the rear muffler hit the far left side of the lower rear valance panel and made a 1 inch rip straight up!
Oh well, NO bailing wire in the trunk! Monsoon! Nice CLEAN clothing that i would NEVER wear to work on the car!......I slowly drove home the 2.5 miles and got out the jackstands etc and removed the B-TCH!......The rear muffler just received a small tear at the connector...........I will need to borrow my friend's welder.....OH WELL!
I drove with only the header pipe all weekend! A little loud, however I do not care!
Good luck and best wishes always,
spo out

[willrev]

Hey,
I own a 2000 Honda Accord that my wife drives 100miles a day to work and home. Great car. But it costs to maintain too! Valve adjustment $150. 30,000 mile service $400 when they change coolant, adjust valves, change oil and PS fluid and all that jazz.

I will admit that Honda's and Toyotas are good. I own a Toyota Tundra too. But that damn truck guzzles gas like no tomorrow and has already eaten thru two oxygen sensors that were over $300 to replace.

My wife's honda gets 30mpg consistently on the highway. It is a 4cylinder. Our payments run $340 per month. Thats over $4000 per year with the payments, maintenance, property taxes. I paid $3400 for my 82 300sd and financed that's $70 per month plus maintenance and $12 per year in property taxes because it is 22 years old.

I enjoy driving it more than the Toyota Tundra and have fun working on it. Even with the maintenance costs, I am spending less than these soccer moms who drive chevy suburbans like a station wagon and suck down $100 a week in gas and pay $400 per month in payments.

Average out your cost of ownership including property tax, maintenance, etc. I don't think you will find much difference.

My daughter and my son have both driven Honda Civics. My son has had one and my daughter has had three. I have worn my wrenches out on them.

My daughter had a BRAND NEW civic that luckily was still under warranty when it went into limp mode and wouldn't run over 45MPH. The dealer is about 80 miles away and I had to drive it in the Texas heat to leave it. The ECM was shot. They put one in and the same thing happened two weeks later and had to drive it again in the Texas heat with no a/c. This time they replaced the alternator AND the ECM and it was okay for awhile.

I have replaced so many of those stupid CV joint boots that I can do it in my sleep even though it's a PITA. I've had all sorts of problems with these cars. I just put a coil on my sons and it now needs an inner tie rod end on the rack and both bellows. It also has a bad oil leak that I can't nail down.

Honda being a more reliable car than anything else is a MYTH. The only car I've had that was as or more reliable than an MB was my wifes Toyota 4 Runner. It has 190,000 miles and has clearly been the most trouble free car we've ever owned. The ONLY repair it has ever needed was an expansion valve on the air conditioner which was an hour and a half job and a starter. I have also put an O2 sensor on it and replaced the timing belt as preventive maintenance which is the worst thing about the vehicle. I hate cars with timing belts.

Go ahead and believe that Hondas are trouble free, but keep some cash on had for the repairs that they will inevitably need. Cars are machines with lots of moving parts. None of them run forever.

Have a great day,

[SD Blue]

Owning any used vehicle can be a lesson in patience sometimes. As many here have attested to, a ricer of the same age will have just as many, if not more, problems. I bought mine for $1500 and have put about $1000 in parts and probably 3x that in labor, hey my time is worth something.

I looked at Honda's that were the same age before I bought the MB. "Brakes, I just use the emer. if I need to stop sooner." "The air cond. quit about 5 yrs. ago so I cut the belt.""The power steering started leaking then squealing so I cut the belt and I haven't had any problem using manual steer." "It has always made a knocking sound when I get on it."

But I take care of the critical items first and work on the rest when I get a round 'tuit'. Backing off, and going fishing, takes the stress out of those.

[Mister Byrnzoil]

If you weren't wrenching on your benz...

FWIW...
My '91 crx just passed 108k, in the last 20k I have changed the timing belt+WP $60, both cv joints $120, front rotors $60, starter $15, 2 lightbulbs and a tranny flush.

total cost... less than $300. now shes G2G for another 100K.

It ALWAYS starts, runs like a top, burns no oil and the A/C works. But I get very little respect and I take very little pleasure from driving it.

cheers,
Robert