No Fuel to Front Injector - Is IP shot? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ssorange · #1 04-07-2010, 06:48 PM

Vehicle: 1987 w201.128 ( 190D turbo)
Engine: 602.961
Fuel: Dino Diesel ( Previous owner ran BioDiesel)
Problem: Sputters wont run - No fuel to front injector

Hi all,

I was driving my 190DT around and it lost power and nearly stalled. I pulled over and let it idle for a while and was able to then nurse it home (about 6 blocks) where it conked out in my driveway. I figured, no problem, I'll just replace the fuel filters. Well, I replaced the fuel filters, but it didn't improve anything.

I then checked to see if any fuel was getting to the injectors by loosening the steel lines at the injectors. All weeped fuel except for the front one. I then removed the nut completely at the injector and NO FUEL! I remove the line and blew it out with air; this didn't help any. So it looks like the IP is not delivering any fuel to the front injector for some reason. What do I do now?

Oh, Prior to the stalling it would run great, but idle a little rough.

Thanks ahead of time!!!!!

-John

oldiesel · #2 04-07-2010, 09:12 PM

if you are getting fuel to all but one of the injectors it should start and run.Try tightening the nuts on the ones that are getting fuel,leave the one with no fuel a couple of turns loose and start the engine.Once it starts there is a good chance the other will soon start delivering fuel.if it does tighten it and see if all cylinders are firing by loosening the line nuts a little and observe the effect on the engine,if all is well it should be running normal in a few minutes. Don

ssorange · #3 04-08-2010, 02:21 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, tried it and it just sputters, some black smoke, but wont start.

What next??

compress ignite · #4 04-08-2010, 02:30 AM

1st picture of Fuel Tank Strainer (From : STAYALERT)
2nd picture of Primary Fuel Filter (Brandon posted for VWnate)
3rd picture is the solution.

oldiesel · #5 04-08-2010, 09:53 AM

Black smoke would indicate fuel is being delivered to the cylinders.May be far fetched but is the air intake somehow blocked,try disconnecting the intake hose from the turbo and try starting it,long shot but maybe worth a try only takes a few minutes.if that fails try starting it with the fuel lines connected to a 2liter bottle of fuel.Without the hand primer pump that the older cars had it can be a real pain in the neck to get the air out of the system.When you changed the fuel filters did you fill the metal one with fuel before you put it on,if not you should. Don

ssorange · #6 04-08-2010, 01:38 PM

Hi,

@compress ignite:

If you are suggesting that the problem might be with a clogged fuel tank screen, wouldn't I have seen some indication of fungus trapped in either of the filters? I saw no indication of ANY problems with either of the fuel filters; I did replace them anyway.

@oldiesel:

I did recently change the airfilter, maybe something failed there.

And yes, I did pre fill the metal fuel filter! (I learned by my mistake last time) I will try running the fuel pump from an auxiliary fuel source and post my findings. If it runs, would that indicate a clog in the tank or would it indicate a weak pump?

compress ignite · #7 04-08-2010, 02:59 PM

It runs well on the "auxiliary" Tank ,You've a fuel blockage.
AND the Fuel Tank Screen can be so occluded that NO Evidence of it's plight
is visible @ the Primary.

The Startron is so inexpensive when compared to a set of fuel filters,much less the mess of having to pull the Fuel Tank Screen.

Chances are 99.95% that you've got either an air leak or a fuel blockage.

ssorange · #8 04-08-2010, 07:30 PM

Hi,

Okay, so I set up a extremely high tech temporary fuel source, a mayonnaise jar zip-tied and duct taped down. I added an extension to the fuel line to reach into the jar and filled it.

No difference. Sputters and dies. Well, one time it almost ran, but really rough, for about 2 seconds.

I ran through about a liter of fuel and gave up!

I don't see any major leakages on the IP. There is a little wetness at the axle of the manual shutoff, and a little around a couple of the lines out of the pump. But no dripping. See jpeg attached.

mespe · #9 04-08-2010, 07:47 PM

You might have gotten air into the system. Disconnect all fuel lines, remove glow plugs or injectors (saves battery life) and crank and crank. You could also just disconnect the one line and wait for the glow light to go out and crank and hopefully it'll start.

When you crank ideally the accelerator pedal is floored (that's why it's a good idea to disconnect all injector lines so that you don't get the inside cylinder walls wet from diesel fuel.

If you are attempting to purge any air out of the IP at idle, you will be there all day long,,,

Seems like it was two problems one the fuel filters were clogged (do you still have them and/or have you inspected them to see if they are clogged, or if you have another underlying problem.

Diesel911 · #10 04-09-2010, 12:43 AM

If your Fuel Injection Pump has Metal Cover on the side that can be removed. I would remove the cover.
Inside you shoud see the top part of the IP Tappets, the Element/Plunger return springs and I believe you can also see the Fuel Rack.
What you are looking for is when you look at the #1 Element you want to see if when you crank the Engine the Plunger goes up and down, or if the Element Spring is Broken or if the Fuel Adjustment on the Rack has loosened and slide out of position, and see if the Element Plunger is stuck in the upward position (the spring will be compressed but it will not Element Plunger will not come down).

Another possible is that the Fuel Inlet Hole on the side of the Element Barrel is plugged with something; preventing Fuel from entering the Element so there is no fuel to be Injected.

Another is that something is holding the Delivery valve open (one cause a broken Delivery Valve Spring). This would cause the Fuel to be pushed out of the Delivery Valve but because it does not close the Fuel would get sucked back in.
If you remove the Delivery Valve Holder to look inside at the Delivery Valve stuff do not rotate the Engine. That can cause the Element Barrel to rise above the Alignment slot.

If it comes out of the slot and does not go back in when you Torque the Delivery Valve Holder down it can damage you IP housing.

layback40 · #11 04-09-2010, 01:51 AM

John,
Unless you are a very competent DYI or a diesel mech, best not mess with the IP.

If you have fuel being delivered to all but one cylinder, the motor will start unless there is some other problem that has not been mentioned. You can let it crank for 20 seconds ( time it with your watch dont guess).

As you emptied out the #1 fuel line , it will take a very long time (several minutes) cranking to refill it. You should have refilled it when you put it back on.

If the car is spluttering & trying to start, maybe you need to check your glowplugs, if they are all working it will help the motor start with one dry injector. When you are cranking you must have your foot to the floor if you want it to start.

Keep recharging your battery.

mespe · #12 04-09-2010, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

John,

Keep recharging your battery.

BUT NOT WHEN CRANKING, lest you burn up starter,,,

ssorange · #13 04-09-2010, 12:08 PM

Hi guys,

Thanks for the info so far. I've just read the new posts and I know what I'll be doing on my last day off. Gota love having old cars.

Questions to all:
How common is it to have a delivery spring fail in an IP?
Will removing the access panel on the side of the IP at the delivery valves cause anything to become in jeopardy of falling out of place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

John,
Unless you are a very competent DYI or a diesel mech, best not mess with the IP.

I consider my self a decent DYIer but no expert on IPs. However, I've successfully completed the R&R of the delivery springs, seals and washers my other 5 cylinder w201. I've been tinkering with MB diesels for about 5 years and anything mechanical since I was 13. So I'm confident enough to attack most jobs, but experienced enough to know when I've reached my limits. So what I'm saying is don't hold back anything!

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

If you have fuel being delivered to all but one cylinder, the motor will start unless there is some other problem that has not been mentioned. You can let it crank for 20 seconds ( time it with your watch dont guess).

I'm going to give up on this, I've spent a day trying cranking/charging with no change. And still no fuel at the front injector.
The glowplugs are relatively new and the weather has been nice and warm here so the GPs probably aren't an issue.

barry123400 · #14 04-09-2010, 01:49 PM

One last quick check. Open return line at injection pump.Does fuel come out when you crank engine? If so there is enough fuel present in the pump under at least a little pressure to supply the number one element.

The other manageable possibilities as I think you have a more modern injection pump than the 123s use. The delivery valve is fouled and not seating by something.Could be a section of broken spring for example. Or the elements seals have failed letting the elements pressure as it builds up escape internally.

Other than those two things I expect it is beyond the average person to repair in the pump. So a good used pump is in order in my opinion at that point. At least they are available..

gsxr · #15 04-09-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssorange

How common is it to have a delivery spring fail in an IP?

Very rare. I've never heard of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssorange

Will removing the access panel on the side of the IP at the delivery valves cause anything to become in jeopardy of falling out of place?

No. You won't see the delivery valves though, those are in the fuel circuit. Removing the cover allows you visibilty to the external parts which are lubed by engine oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssorange

I'm going to give up on this, I've spent a day trying cranking/charging with no change. And still no fuel at the front injector.

Don't worry about the front injector. The engine should start & run even with one dead cylinder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssorange

The glowplugs are relatively new and the weather has been nice and warm here so the GPs probably aren't an issue.

You have checked for voltage at the GP's, right? And checked the fuse on the GP relay?