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  #1  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:39 PM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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The diabolical broken bleed screw

Having finally completed replacing all the brake paraphernalia up front, I moved to the back, where I had planned to simply replace the hoses and pads and bleed the whole system. No reason to believe there is anything wrong with those calipers. Of course, there was the catch: One of them has a broken bleed screw, sheered off all the way. I stuck an easy out in there and it got a nice bite, I felt a snap and thought I'd gotten it loose ... on no, my Harbor Freight easyout broke off in the hole. The last set of calipers with broken bleed screws I encountered (on a GM), I just replaced at $20 a side rather than fight. These are $90 a side. I really have to spend $180 because of a broken bleed screw, don't I? Or can I try something else magical. Yes, I've tried drilling a smaller easyout into the broken easyout that's stuck in the hole. One of my 123's calipers has a broken off screw, too (my fault, I overtorqued it) and I'm eventually going to have the same problem on that one.
I really hate bleed screws right now.
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:07 PM
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lemme guess, the HF easyout broke off flush too...
you were able to drill into the easyout? wild. I'd get the set of craftsman reverse drillbits and drill into the easyout in reverse... no, wait, you'd need to drill into the easyout forward... it ought to unscrew cw... anyway, if you cannot get it out, then yes, replacement of the caliper is only choice... call a local machine shop. here in nc, there is a company shop that has an arc device that will remove anything from anything. it's awesome. we broke off a stud in a 72 superbee 383 big block head, then broke off an easy out, took it to him and in 5 seconds he had them both out. amazing to watch.
if that won't work, I have a 93 parts car that was driving when parted out to me. lemme know if you need the calipers. I have my 87 wagon now, but it's well maintained, so should not need major parts like that if I continue the maintenance.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:26 PM
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I would take the caliper off and do this on the bench (in a vice). Take a Dremel with a cutoff wheel and cut a cross that will fit a phillips head screw driver. Get it to fit a #2 bit real well and use an impact screw driver (the type you hit with a hammer). Spray and let soak with a good penetrating lube (Freeall is one). Better yet, heat it up first with a propane torch, douse with water. Do that a few times (breaks the rust bond), then spray with penetrating oil then use the impact screw driver.

John, I like to know more about that arc process thanks.
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  #4  
Old 07-05-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
John, I like to know more about that arc process thanks.
If it's the same I used recently to remove a stud remnant from a cylinder head, it's called an EDM machine.

Here's a basic explanation: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-edm.htm
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strelnik View Post
If it's the same I used recently to remove a stud remnant from a cylinder head, it's called an EDM machine.

Here's a basic explanation: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-edm.htm
nope, this is not what was used on my head, the head was chucked up in a mill style bracket, and an arc producing attachment was lowered and it attached itself to the screw, then just removed it.
I'll find out more about it for you if I can.
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  #6  
Old 07-06-2010, 12:07 PM
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Sounds simular to my welding a nut on a flush broken off fitting and backing it out. Position the nut carefully and go down the centre of the nut to weld it on. Some judgement is required. The heat from my mig welder really does a job on heating up the broken portion of the fitting that remains. That is what makes it almost always work in my opinion.

Plus the heat from the weld is slower to transit through the rust to the part that is separate from the broken stud so with a little care there is no cross bond weld.

Up here bleeder screws can be impossible to back off without some type of heat methology even when appearing normal. If they do not move very easily I pick up a torch. That rust bond has to be broken or you have a sheared bleeder screw on your hands. There are many approaches to heating them.

If a replacement caliper is really pricey you can drill right on top of the old bleeder screw and install an aftermarket insert with it's own seat. Also never underestimate a good old time machinist. If he is going to get the remains of a broken bleeder screw out for you it will be fairly fast or not at all.
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:03 AM
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While its best not to mess with brakes, you can still bleed the caliper in a fashion.

First with the hose not attached to the caliper bleed the line until it is free of air, you then need to make sure the system doesnt drain out the hose.
Retract the pistons, then with the caliper off the car but reconnected to the brake line, pump the brakes until the pistons have come out about 1/2 way. then disconnect the line and with the connection hole at the highest point push the pistons back in keeping the hole for the line full of fluid. Screw the hose back on & if you have been careful all the air will be out. It is a total PITA but you can do it, I have.

Good Luck
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:10 AM
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I've done it this way with a 123, but not on a car with abs... would it work the same? that's a lot of tubing to bleed through. gravity bleeding through the flex hoses can work pretty well too...
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:18 AM
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Ezee outs are heat treated pretty hard so it is difficult to drill through them with regular high speed Steel Drill Bits.

If someone really wanted to save the Caliper and not exchange it for a rebuilt Caliper you could pull the Caliper Piston out on that side and you might be able to drill through the tip of the Bleed Screw and get someting to beat the Ezee out back out opposite the direction it went in.
But, the Bleed Screws can be made of hard Metal and diameter of punch would be so skinny that might not work either.
Best to just exchange the Caliper and let the Rebuilder worry about fixing the old one.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:37 AM
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Thanks, all. I may tinker with it a bit more tomorrow. There's no way anything I have will drill into that easyout bit (I'm sure something would, but not my tools). I might give philips head trick a try but I think the breakoff is too close to the caliper itself, i.e., there's nothing for the screwdriver to bite. I'm guessing I'm just wasting my time at this point. Kicking myself for not using a better easyout ... maybe it would have worked.
vstech, are the 93 calipers the same as the 87's? How much do you want for them + shipping? Of course with the holiday tomorrow it would take a while to get them .. patience isn't my strongpoint.
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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
There's no way anything I have will drill into that easyout bit (I'm sure something would, but not my tools).
If you have mapp gas plumber's torch (hotter than propane) then heat the easy out until it is red hot, and let cool down. The slower the better. It may take a two or three times.
When I had a tap break off in a piece of work that I already had invested a couple hours in, i wasn't about to let that go. At its factory temper, there was no way I could have drilled through it - I tried. But I heated it up red hot twice and each time i dropped it in a bucket of loose vermiculite (insulates it so it cools even slower - you could use sand or dirt) and after that I threw it on the lathe and the bit chewed right through that tap like it was aluminum.

All you have to do is ruin the temper on the ease out. Its really not hard, and its a very cheap way to save your caliper. A little metallurgy can go a long way.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:44 AM
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You would spend less time and save your sanity if you just put another caliper on. They're easy enough to get at the Junkyard. $15- $20 and you're done.
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
Thanks, all. I may tinker with it a bit more tomorrow. There's no way anything I have will drill into that easyout bit (I'm sure something would, but not my tools). I might give philips head trick a try but I think the breakoff is too close to the caliper itself, i.e., there's nothing for the screwdriver to bite. I'm guessing I'm just wasting my time at this point. Kicking myself for not using a better easyout ... maybe it would have worked.
vstech, are the 93 calipers the same as the 87's? How much do you want for them + shipping? Of course with the holiday tomorrow it would take a while to get them .. patience isn't my strongpoint.
Cut into the caliper with the Dremel if you have to, the seal is a flare at the bottom of the hole, not the threads. The heat and water is to cause expansion contraction and breaking the bond between the threads. Use a propane torch, it won't get the caliper red hot (which you do not need). Try a slot and a regular screw driver with heat/water at first if you do not have an impact screw driver. If the screw driver does not get it out. Try a punch on the slot.
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  #14  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 View Post
Thanks, all. I may tinker with it a bit more tomorrow. There's no way anything I have will drill into that easyout bit (I'm sure something would, but not my tools). I might give philips head trick a try but I think the breakoff is too close to the caliper itself, i.e., there's nothing for the screwdriver to bite. I'm guessing I'm just wasting my time at this point. Kicking myself for not using a better easyout ... maybe it would have worked.
vstech, are the 93 calipers the same as the 87's? How much do you want for them + shipping? Of course with the holiday tomorrow it would take a while to get them .. patience isn't my strongpoint.
Small diameter Ezee-Outs are easily broken no matter who makes them. I have broken my Proto and Snap-on small ones but the larger Sizes that came in the sets are still good.

In general the other issues with Ezee-Outs is that the hole has to be the proper size (you do not want the tip of the Ezee-Out as the only part making contact; better about mid way up) and the hole you drill needs to be close to center (not the problem in your case).

What was missing is that Heating area around what you are removing is an extremely big help.
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Small diameter Ezee-Outs are easily broken no matter who makes them. I have broken my Proto and Snap-on small ones but the larger Sizes that came in the sets are still good.

In general the other issues with Ezee-Outs is that the hole has to be the proper size (you do not want the tip of the Ezee-Out as the only part making contact; better about mid way up) and the hole you drill needs to be close to center (not the problem in your case).

What was missing is that Heating area around what you are removing is an extremely big help.
Thanks ... good to know for future reference. I probably also should have used a little PB Blaster. Also should have started with the caliper off the car and in a vice (I just moved into my garage and have no bench or vice yet). I kind of jumped into it thinking it would be an easy quick task ... why would I ever make that assumption? Live and learn.
One question about heating it, though ... I'm a little gunshy about flames near brake dust and brake fluid ... am I being overly paranoid?
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