Motor Flush - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

P.E.Haiges · #31 01-11-2002, 04:41 PM

Larry B,

That's fine with me, Maintain anyway you want and I will do likewise. I didn't mean you were a dimwit, but the idea of a 50 mile oil change????????????

P E H

Palangi · #32 01-11-2002, 05:13 PM

Going back to the first page of this thread, let me point out that i said flushing a diesel engine (meaning either via 50 mile oil changes or evil solvents) is not normally necessary anyway. I did not infer that I change the oil every 50 miles. You think a 50 mile oil change is whacko, I happen to think adding dry cleaning fluid to your crankcase is equally whacko. As you pointed out earlier, NEITHER procedure is found in the owners manual. I believe MB DOES, however, specifically recommend AGAINST adding things to the oil.

Ducati · #33 01-11-2002, 07:44 PM

Aahhhh...TaHellWithIt...I'm just going to change my oil & filter at 6000 miles...(Mobil 1 Delvac Synth.)

240 Ed · #34 01-12-2002, 07:24 AM

Ducati

I used to think the buses I drove were neglected. It was required to check the oil level on any bus you drove, and I was always appalled at the black oil on the dipstick. Don't worry about the black look of the oil, you are not going to get away from it in these engines.
In fact the oil is doing it's job correctly, by keeping the contaminants in suspension, instead of leaving them on the internal engine parts in the form of gunky gook.
A buddy of mine once bought a sweet 1958 Ford sedan from the original owner, a nice old lady who only drove...etc. The oil was always golden color and clear-so beautiful!
It needed a quart of oil one day, so off we go to the local parts store-bought a can of oil (they used to come in paper cans, remember?) and dutifully popped it in the 352 engine.
About 100 miles later, this beauty starts blowing oil smoke like a Michigan mosquito fogger !!!!
Well sir, that one quart of detergent oil undid the original owners careful regimen of oil change maintenance completely. From day one the original owner had used non detergent oil, which built up deposits inside the engine-which faithfully kept all the tolerances in the moving parts in perfect specs! Once loosened and removed, all the parts realized their wear! All them thar parts said to each other, "hey, let's get Loose!"

The moral is, choose detergent oil or non detergent oil, doesn't matter. If you go with non, youse better stick wid it.
If you choose detergent oil, (and you should) you must change it out to get rid of the suspended contaminants and recharge the oils additive package.

A side note. In my job as a bus driver for field trips for a major university, I get to go to all sorts of interesting places. One of them was the Exxon oil refinery in Benecia CA. It was for a microbiology class which was collecting samples of the soil around the waste water ponds for the refinery. Turns out there is a microbe which loves to eat petroleum products, and they count on it to clean the water!!
Anyway I asked the head scientist what synthetic oil was derived from. (If it was artificial oil, then what stuff did they start from? Anybody ever wonder that???) This guy looked a little taken aback by this question and admitted that synthetic oil is actually made from oil...
The other thing about motor oils is that the "additive package" goes away in about 3000 miles and is one of two reasons why you need to change the oil out. The other one is to flush the contaminants out that the oil has kept in suspension. The additive package only has the capacity to keep these contaminants suspended for a certain number of miles, etc. Then the oil starts acting like non detergent oil and starts depositing the gook back onto the engine.
Perhaps we should think of oil as a method of removing the byproducts of combustion.
The additive package is there to improve the sheer strength of the oil and prevent the formation of acid, which protects your engine. Think about the torture of the cam against the follower...

Yup, I keep Mobil 1 in my Alfa too, and I would be surprised if I could drive my GTV6 for 5000 miles in a year-not that the car isn't willing, but my body would be all kinked all outta shape if I did. I drove it 250 miles one day, and my right leg was killing me! Where did they get the idea for this driving position anyway?

#35 01-12-2002, 08:53 AM

Let's hear it! Three cheers for 240 Ed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've never heard it put better! No wonder you work for a University! The key to your explanation is describing the oil that is left behind as non detergent oil. When you stop to think about it, that's exactly what it is. This is a great way to explain it.

Have a great day,

240 Ed · #36 01-12-2002, 09:19 AM

Aw, shucks,

Actually, engine oil is readily recyclable. Here in San Jose, we have curbside recycling for everything, including used oil. It (the oil) doesn't really wear out, just the additives wear out, and it gets dirty.

Shoot, remember bulk oil?
At the gas station, if you needed oil, you had a choice of brands or that unknown stuff in the nifty glass quart bottle with the stainless pour spout?

anybody remember this?

Gotta be some old fossils out there reading this that remember...

tcane · #37 01-12-2002, 11:39 AM

240 Ed:
Yep, I remember re-cycled oil very well just as you described - in the one quart glass jars with the funnel screwed on just waiting for someone to buy it for 5-10 cents a quart as I recall, no brand name or any reference to its origin. We could even buy it in bulk by the gallon or 55-gallon drum for less. Seems to have worked OK, but I vividly remember pulling the valve cover off several engines to find what looked like a layer of grease in the shape of the valve cover and areas without the crud only because the rockers arms and valve springs moved - the mess was even worse in the oil pan.

To those that show great concern about getting every drop of old oil out of their diesel engines during an oil change - you are overlooking the injection pump which holds about 16 ounces of oil that does not drain out (the oil outlet is either a small slit or two holes- depending on the IP version you have - located about one inch above the IP cam shaft). Partially removing the fuel pump will allow draining of the oil in the IP, then you need to refill it through the IP oil inlet, of course you may also need to replace the fuel pump gasket before putting oil in. Then you need to drain all the oil out of the oil passages and oil pump - so you need to run the engine for 30 seconds or so without any oil in it to get the very last drop of old oil out (I know someone who does this). Of course, running the engine without any oil in it to drain the passages and oil pump is COMPLETELY at your own risk - as I hope all that read this paragraph realize that this is very much tongue in cheek!

!

I have not read any info from M-B about draining oil lines, the oil cooler, IP, etc., etc. Only that you should lift the oil filter up to release the oil in the filter/cannister and then remove the drain plug, then replace/renew those items needing it, refill with the appropriate weight/brand/service classification/amount of oil, run the engine to circulate the new oil thoroughly, and then check the level to make sure you have the correct amount in the engine. M-B lists no other steps for an oil change and they should know what they want done for an oil change to ensure our diesel engines will last 500,000 miles or so.

Larry Bible has it right, change the oil and filter often, and when the oil is hot. For those of you that do not know - oil takes anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes to reach operating temperature (longer in cold weather) and I prefer to run it longer at operating temperature to let the oil additives do their work (like 10-20 minutes or longer) before I drain it. Oil temperature lags behind coolant temperature when the engine is first started for the day, meaning the oil temp. will take longer to reach operating temp. than the radiator's coolant.

My, very cheap, $0.02 worth!

!
Tom

#38 01-12-2002, 11:46 AM

Tom,

You forgot to mention the fiber-optic arthroscopic mini-camera inspection of all pots, ports and reservoirs. We'll call it giving the Benz a Katie Couric...

tcane · #39 01-12-2002, 02:40 PM

mccan:

Ya got me! LOL!!:p!! I guess we need a crane to turn the entire car in different directions to get every last drop of old oil out so it does not contaminate the new oil causing the engine to immediately seize when started after the oil is changed!

!

franklyspeaking · #40 01-12-2002, 03:22 PM

There is a fair amount of oil that takes a long time to drain out. I recently had my 240D on an engine stand for three weeks with oil pan off, and it never did completely stop dripping oil. It probably seemed like a lot more than it really was, but I had to keep cleaning up the mess underneath. It gave me understanding of why the oil doesn't look that clean after an oil change. And after putting new oil back in after the outage and 3 weeks of draining, it still didn't look clean.

So...I am going to put nothing but oil in there, because anything you put in may never come back out.

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