240D vs BlueTEC - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vahe · #1 01-23-2011, 04:25 PM

Ok, do not laugh read on,

Yesterday I picked up a new 2011 BlueTEC on a two year lease, this will be for the lady of course.

With little less than 40 miles on this thing our initial impressions can be summed up by WOW, still learning all the bells and whistles. It is a powerful car, standing outside I can definitely tell that it is a diesel by the way the engine sounds, the interior is very quiet, there is hardly any “diesel engine” sound, during accelerations you hear that signature “puuuurrrrrr” that tells you that you are driving a diesel.

It normally does not get very cold here in Houston, the car starts instantly in 35-40 degree weather.

The entire front console is one fancy computer, the transmission shift lever is not on the center console but has been moved to the steering column, it is all electronic interface.
If a diesel offers any advantage over gasser cars it is the fuel economy and durability, on fuel economy the BlueTEC with 3.5x horsepower gets better mileage than my 240D, the 240D with a relatively new motor gets about 32mpg at 60 mph highway speeds, above that the wind gets in the way and mileage drops big time, the BlueTEC gets a bit better mileage and stays that way at much higher speeds.

On the durability no contest, the 240D wins hands down, all you need to do is to pop the hood open on the BleuTEC and show me where the engine is located.

After driving the new MB for couple of hours the 240D feels, drives and sounds like a riding lawnmower, but I love this old dog, so for now we will drive the two extremes in the diesel technology.

Initially I had my reservations about the lease vs purchase, no more, with 4 year 50K mile warranty offered by MB, and as expensive as the lease is, there is no way that I can afford to own and maintain such a complicated car pass the warranty point.

Vahe
240 D 77 manual, about 370K miles
350 BlueTEC 2011 about 40 miles

vstech · #2 01-23-2011, 05:52 PM

this is a good point, but this advocates a throw away society. I suppose at 50K the car is just being broken in, and the used market will snatch the car up with depreciation... or it'll go on longterm lease, or something similar.
I'm sure in time, the bluetec repairs will trickle down to the masses, and become a viable repairable vehicle... time will tell.
I was following one into the mall today... nice looking vehicle I must say.

Zacharias · #3 01-24-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

this is a good point, but this advocates a throw away society.

But isn't this where much of the new automotive technology is headed anyway?

Up here in the rust belt many shops don't want to work on anything more than six to eight years old now.

I have a friend who worked on VWs, Peugots and Mercedes for a decade. He's now gone to a "we fix everything" shop. He says he's appalled how unserviceable many of the cars are.

Of course same goes for appliances, computers, etc. We are discarding consumer goods at a great rate.

Sorry, got myself onto one of my favourite rants. I'll sctumm now

Oldwolf · #4 01-24-2011, 02:05 PM

They had a couple 2011 BlueTec's at the MB dealer this weekend when I went to pick up a gasket for my 300D. Beautiful and highly desirable (to me) cars, but I'm not kidding myself, I'll never be able to afford buying a new MB of any model.

PS- The AMG V-12's are incredible cars too.

W124 E300D · #5 01-24-2011, 02:27 PM

Sorry, no, from an engineering perspective they are a steaming pile of ****.... piezo injectors, think inkjet printer heads, wonderful things but not built to last, extremely high pressure fuel pumps, 25,000 psi, but built like cheap-ass pressure washer pumps, not R3 hydraulic systems...

The OP is a smart man for getting it on a no questions asked full maintenance lease with get out for free clause at the end.

In another 20 years time you will still be able to buy a solid W124 diesel for less than it will cost you to rebuild a 20 year old bluetec and get it running properly.

nhdoc · #6 01-24-2011, 02:34 PM

You got yourself a good car and got it the right way, same as ours on a short lease

What colors did you get?

We're enjoying ours, though, admittedly the weather here has been horrible since we picked ours up. 2 large snowstorms and now this morning sub-zero temps.

I drove mine with the all-weather tires up my street (a decent hill) after the storm left 3-4 inches of unplowed, unsanded slop and it made it up the hill just fine. If you don't push it the traction control doesn't even kick in.

I find the steering to be lighter than I like (more like a Caddy then a Mercedes) but with the variable force it feels better once you get going and the assist is cut down some.

My ONE pet peeve is the NAV which, frankly, sucks. It seems very touchy. Several times I have had to shut it off and restart it in order for it to "find" itself, otherwise it will not know where the car is. Usually it is after you try and access some other feature or area of the system and go back to the map. Then it seems to get lost. If you don't touch the controls it seems to always know where it is but changing a setting shouldn't cause it to get lost.

The graphics are very primitive. I have seen NAV units which even have the actual street image on them, complete with buildings and houses. This looks like it is a Ca. 1995 Nintendo 64 game by comparison. You can't change the voice and it has a particularly annoying inflection when it give directions. Also, in testing routes to known locations it gives bizarre routing - they do eventually get you there but often taking you out of the way. Our Tom-Tom from 4 years ago is so far superior to this system it is shameful and can be bought new for around $100, far less than the cost of an update DVD for the M-B system. Has anyone else noticed that it's just "not ready for prime time"?

The only good feature of the NAV is the voice control, which, admittedly does work well and is much safer than taking your eyes off of the road to program a destination. Still, I expected much better from Mercedes, especially when you factor in the cost of this system.

Even my VW Jetta's factory Nav is better than this.

Even with this little disappointment the car is still wonderful. To compare it with a 240D is a little silly...about the only thing they have in common is the star on the hood. The Bluetec is an awesome car - even with its shortcomings it is the finest new car I have ever owned.

I have found that both with my Jetta and the Bluetec that the easier you drive it the worse your fuel economy is. Use a little more go-pedal to get up to cruise and you will be rewarded with both a thrill and better overall average economy - I didn't believe it either but I see it is true now. I still coast to red lights as much as possible but no longer drive like I have an egg between my foot and the pedal...give it some juice!

W124 E300D · #7 01-24-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

My ONE pet peeve is the NAV which, frankly, sucks. It seems very touchy. Several times I have had to shut it off and restart it in order for it to "find" itself, otherwise it will not know where the car is. Usually it is after you try and access some other feature or area of the system and go back to the map. Then it seems to get lost. If you don't touch the controls it seems to always know where it is but changing a setting shouldn't cause it to get lost.

The graphics are very primitive. I have seen NAV units which even have the actual street image on them, complete with buildings and houses. This looks like it is a Ca. 1995 Nintendo 64 game by comparison. You can't change the voice and it has a particularly annoying inflection when it give directions. Also, in testing routes to known locations it gives bizarre routing - they do eventually get you there but often taking you out of the way. Our Tom-Tom from 4 years ago is so far superior to this system it is shameful and can be bought new for around $100, far less than the cost of an update DVD for the M-B system. Has anyone else noticed that it's just "not ready for prime time"?

The only good feature of the NAV is the voice control, which, admittedly does work well and is much safer than taking your eyes off of the road to program a destination. Still, I expected much better from Mercedes, especially when you factor in the cost of this system.

This is FREE with my android smartphone, "navigate to mum's" and it does, and I even shows live streetview instead of a weedy map...

http://www.google.com/mobile/navigation/

nhdoc · #8 01-24-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W124 E300D

This is FREE with my android smartphone, "navigate to mum's" and it does, and I even shows live streetview instead of a weedy map...

http://www.google.com/mobile/navigation/

Yeah, I know, it's what makes the M-B Nav look so bad is how good FREE Nav can be! Like I said, what they provide as NAV is pretty shameful.

vahe · #9 01-24-2011, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

You got yourself a good car and got it the right way, same as ours on a short lease

What colors did you get?

This one is Iridium Silver inside and out, I wanted the white with dark interior, my 240D is also white with tan interiors, but the lady insisted at getting the same color as her recently deceased E320/97 which was silver, its her car after all so there we are.

Vahe

pawoSD · #10 01-25-2011, 08:05 AM

Cars with everything integrated are not worth it, the technology changes so fast. I much prefer a device I can mount and switch out later when an improved one is available.

Randy · #11 01-25-2011, 08:15 AM

I agree in that the old 240D and cars in general of that era are much simpler and easier to service and repair. Emissions-driven technology has added enormous complexity and cost to the Diesel engine. The performance is great, but there are so many failure points, and potential for costly repairs. This is true of all Diesel engines now: semi-trucks as well.
For the Diesel hobbyist: get a 240 or 300-series and you can enjoy working on it. For the new buyer: get a lease with a warranty.

Oldwolf · #12 01-25-2011, 09:11 AM

You guys are depressing me because your comments are likely true and can also be expanded to describe many other facets of today's society.

vahe · #13 01-25-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldwolf

You guys are depressing me because your comments are likely true and can also be expanded to describe many other facets of today's society.

More than half of all passenger cars in Europe are diesel powered, the political climate in Europe in general is not as hostile towards diesel technology as it is here in US, the current emission requirements make diesel cars expensive to own and operate, on top of all that the MB USA golden rule of selling the most expensive versions loaded with every conceivable option does not help the matter a bit.

European drivers typically hold on to their cars for a long time, culturally it is very much acceptable to do that, this particular BlueTEC is designed specifically for the US throw away culture, I wish I could buy what MB offers to their European customers but that is not going to happen.

Vahe

Hatterasguy · #14 01-25-2011, 09:52 AM

Do they offer the diesel in 4matic yet? That would keep me from buying the diesel, 4matic is nice.

nhdoc · #15 01-25-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Do they offer the diesel in 4matic yet? That would keep me from buying the diesel, 4matic is nice.

Nope, at least not here in the USA.

To be honest it is also what kept me from considering the Bluetec but in retrospect it is silly to think this way. I can tell you that if you put snows on the RWD platform you will never get stuck in it. You are far more likely to have trouble stopping (or controlling the car) during deceleration than you are to lose the ability to propel your car through the snow using the rear wheels alone. Also the new stability control systems do a great deal to prevent fishtailing and loss of control in turns - a HUGE improvement over old cars. My Jetta is amazing to take around turns in the snow and it also has all season radials (and 18" ones to boot!).

If the conditions are so bad that 4Matic is the only way you can move forward then stopping will surely be more of a challenge than I would care to encounter.

I've purposely driven the new Bluetec with the all season tires it came with to test it out in a couple of storms. 3-4 inches of unplowed snow up the hill to our house wasn't an issue for it. This morning's light dusting was more challenging than that and even then it was OK. I am sure if I did spring for snows it would be even better. I used to be sold on the 4Matic too, but in hindsight it buys you nothing. Those commercials where they show the car driving on wet ice mean nothing until you have to stop...then watchout!