K&N filter - Have I purchased a bad item? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

layback40 · #16 04-01-2011, 09:36 PM

On my scraper & road grader, if I fit K&N any warranty from CAT is gone. They suggest its ok to use them as an extra pre-filter only. I can use after market filters (Donaldson) no probs. I clean my filters with compressed air regularly, including the MB ones. I have never had to rebuild a motor because of being dusted out.
The local K&H distributor was out here once when they area manager for CAT was here, it was an interesting encounter. The K&H guy hasnt been back since !!

If you are in town & not running in dusty conditions, I guess you could use one if you maintained it well.
I would never buy anything with a K&N or similar filter system on it. They are just "boy racer" stuff. I dont need the extra noise of the intake drumming in my ears when driving.

Diesel911 · #17 04-02-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

I always got filtration efficiency information on air filters, whether for my CAT or for an industrial air-handler.

Any dust can do damage. It is abrasive to the turbo and intake, can cling to cylinder walls, etc. I know that you're not arguing that air filtration is not necessary.

Less and smaller particles will always benefit the engine.

What I was hinting at in Post #13 the lack of an easy to find info that rates Air Filter Filtration.
Without some sort of standard of testing the filter makers can say things like the Fram comment "filters out 99% of the harmfull particles" without saying what the consider harmful. (Since as you indicated even the smalles particles are not good to have; more so if there is a lot of them.)

If there was an easy to find rating system the K&N issue would be easily resolved.

On another Forum ForcedInduction said that there is ISO info on Air Filter Filtration. But, in the few searches I have made I have found nothing free.

Diesel911 · #18 04-02-2011, 12:21 AM

Bob The Oil Guy's Air Filter Test. (It has K&N and also a NAPA Paper one in the test along with other companies.)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

At the end of the flow Test he has that the K&N Filter flowed best of the Filters tested.

" The K&N did flow better than the Napa Gold in the first test to the tune of 0.02 psi. That is less than 1/3rd the loss in the factory piping, and it is a whopping 0.14% of atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi). If you need the 0.14% better airflow, than the K&N is hands down the best filter."
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm

What I got from the above test concerning the K&N is that while it did not filter as well it was not a huge difference and that it did flow better.
Also, that if you have a stock Engine the extra flow you might get from the K&N would not be needed.

Tanksowner · #19 04-02-2011, 09:57 AM

So let me see if I have this right...

The K&N, while more free-flowing, lets in more dirt than your average run-of-the-mill Fram filter. For a car that's not a performance car, not to mention a diesel, particle filtration must be of the utmost importance to keep the engine clean. Essentially, what I'm gathering is that the K&N filter is not really ideal for this car. Most of your responses seem to be negatively biased against K&N, but I'm sure you wouldn't be making such comments unless you have cause to do so. I had another filter in there when I bought the car, but I am not aware who the manufacturer is. It didn't look too dirty, it may have been changed out recently. I'm gathering that I should be putting this filter back in, no?

Matt L · #20 04-02-2011, 10:27 AM

I wouldn't use Fram as the standard for any filters. Actually, I wouldn't use Fram at all.

vstech · #21 04-02-2011, 10:32 AM

whatever filter you use, be sure it fits.
many "correct" filters for the car are too short to seal. Puralator filters are reboxed mann filters often. german made filters designed for THIS car are what I'd use.

Diesel911 · #22 04-02-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L

I wouldn't use Fram as the standard for any filters. Actually, I wouldn't use Fram at all.

Please explain what you believe is wrong with the Fram Air Filters (I know there has been some issues with their Oil Filters).

Matt L · #23 04-02-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am looking at a Fram Filter box and it has "Filters out 99% of harmful particles". But, it does not say 99% of what sized particles and that makes that information somewhat useless.

This is one.

Here's another: Their company philosophy can be deduced by the quality of the oil filters, where they think you won't be looking.

Diesel911 · #24 04-02-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

whatever filter you use, be sure it fits.
many "correct" filters for the car are too short to seal. Puralator filters are reboxed mann filters often. german made filters designed for THIS car are what I'd use.

Note:I am not trying to turn this into a Oil Filter Thread but for others reading this do not assume that becaue Purolator Boxes the Mann Air Filters that they also boxes Mann Oil filters.

They do not; their Oil Filter is Made in India. (The central tube in the bypass section of that filter is entirely free floating; not attached to anything inside of the filter.)

Squiggle Dog · #25 04-02-2011, 12:17 PM

I had a K&N filter in my last 300SD. It was the type that is the same shape as the original filter and fit inside the air cleaner. I really liked it because, since it breathed better, you could hear the turbo, especially on the freeway and it made the car sound like a jet.

I would install another K&N filter, except I wouldn't want fine particles getting sucked in, if in fact they don't filter as well, because I plan on keeping this car for the rest of my life and it already has 400,000 miles.

oldsinner111 · #26 04-02-2011, 12:30 PM

I run paper if in dusty area,but cities and highway theres nothing better than K an N for power.

vstech · #27 04-02-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsinner111

I run paper if in dusty area,but cities and highway theres nothing better than K an N for power.

babymog · #28 04-02-2011, 07:02 PM

C'mon John, I'm sure he has dyno paper to prove it.

It doesn't really matter, like a synthetic oil thread, whatever you're happy running.

Just remove the K&N to advertise it for sale, will hurt the value more than green anti-freeze ;~)

Hit Man X · #29 04-02-2011, 08:29 PM

This is about as bad as an oil thread.

Do what you feel to YOUR car.

Skid Row Joe · #30 04-02-2011, 10:36 PM

K & N, without even looking into their product line's sales and marketing, seems to be a peripheral accessory supplier completely content in skulking around the edges of a very large and competitive industry. To my observation, they appear to have created a market for products that are not in any way necessary in their industry. Generically, this is referred to as; 'snake oil.' The K & N following of zombie-like buyers of their products, have a way of perpetrating their unqualified and totally unquantifiable (snake-oil) claims.

There is a product marketed by the name of; 'Slick 50' that makes a comeback/resurgence every few years to new, unsuspecting buyers of their outlandishly snake-oil-like claims.

K & N seems to have weathered the day to day 'snake-oil' handle, and has become mainstream in their sales and marketing of their products.

However, when challenged on-the-spot by a factory rep. from Caterpillar, they run for the shadows. Read; their claims cannot stand-up to the scrutiny and resistance of the major engine manufacturers around the globe. As proven by Layback 40's personal experience with their rep. in AU.

If it makes you feel better, because you unquantifiably believe you are getting more mpg and performance out of a non-performance diesel engine? Knock yerself out in buying and using their products. Me, OTOH, have more sense than to be pulled in by their slick marketing, and zombie-like testimonials out there.

I used Donaldson and Racor brand air filtering, and fuel filtering products on my previous Isuzu diesel powered motorcoach. I would have nothing less on any coach or heavy diesel equipment in my ownership and employ.

Unless anyone can come forward with independent data proving K & N's viability - I have to turn my head and laugh every time I hear someone trying to again tout their products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

On my scraper & road grader, if I fit K&N any warranty from CAT is gone. They suggest its ok to use them as an extra pre-filter only. I can use after market filters (Donaldson) no probs. I clean my filters with compressed air regularly, including the MB ones. I have never had to rebuild a motor because of being dusted out.
The local K&H distributor was out here once when they area manager for CAT was here, it was an interesting encounter. The K&H guy hasnt been back since !!

If you are in town & not running in dusty conditions, I guess you could use one if you maintained it well.
I would never buy anything with a K&N or similar filter system on it. They are just "boy racer" stuff. I dont need the extra noise of the intake drumming in my ears when driving.