Hole in Timing Chain Cover - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tonye2991 · #1 05-28-2011, 02:32 AM

I have a 1987 Benz 300 SDL, with the 6 cyl 3.0 Turbo Diesel motor. I recently started having trouble with the car and it turned out my turbo was seized so I put in a used turbo. The car started running better for about 20 minutes then as I pulled into my driveway I noticed that it was pouring oil out of the front of the motor, I assumed it was coming from the front crankshaft seal. After I pulled everything apart I realized that the seal was fine but directly underneath where the crankshaft comes out there is about a 1 inch by a half inch hole in my timing chain cover. I have a few questions, How difficult and what does it involve to change the timing chain cover? Also what are the chances that the piece of metal fell into the motor? And how would I check to see if the piece did fall in? Any advice is well appreciated, Thanks.

Aquaticedge · #2 05-28-2011, 02:39 AM

Does it look like the metal was punched in or pushed out? that will tell you what your dealing with as far as metal bits in the engine. if your worried you can put a magnet or two on your oil pan. the next time you change your oil, scoot them over to the drain and see what you got. Chances something got into the timing chain area and punched out a hole unless you hit something recently.

vstech · #3 05-28-2011, 08:15 AM

a magnet will show if some steel inside the motor damaged the cover, but the cover itself is aluminum, so it won't attach to the magnet...
rocks can get against the balancer and damage the cover, more likely a VP failure in the past took it out, and didn't start leaking until now.
or the chain guide could be banging, or the belt tensioner could be damaged...
time to figure out what caused it.
post pics if you can, so we can know more about the problem!

layback40 · #4 05-28-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

a magnet will show if some steel inside the motor damaged the cover, but the cover itself is aluminum, so it won't attach to the magnet...
rocks can get against the balancer and damage the cover, more likely a VP failure in the past took it out, and didn't start leaking until now.
or the chain guide could be banging, or the belt tensioner could be damaged...
time to figure out what caused it.
post pics if you can, so we can know more about the problem!

X2
I had a drain plug magnet come loose in the diff of a 4 wheel bike. It put a hole in the casting. Patched it with JB weld, it is still holding 5 years later.

funola · #5 05-28-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

X2
I had a drain plug magnet come loose in the diff of a 4 wheel bike. It put a hole in the casting. Patched it with JB weld, it is still holding 5 years later.

Did you add the drain plug magnet? When I do that, I always put on some epoxy before putting the magnet on the drain plug.

layback40 · #6 05-30-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Did you add the drain plug magnet? When I do that, I always put on some epoxy before putting the magnet on the drain plug.

No it came with it from new.
I put a sleeve on it & pressed it in.
It wont come out now!

GregMN · #7 05-28-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonye2991

How difficult and what does it involve to change the timing chain cover?... how would I check to see if the piece did fall in?

Your motor should have a passenger's side extension to the oil pan. Pulling it will give access to look around.

The chain drive for the oil pump is what put a hole in my timing chain cover just above the crank.

I would rather R & R the head than the timing chain cover.

Remove the fan, shroud, & radiator
remove the vacuum pump
remove the belt and tensioner shock and spring
remove the front bolts in the head that attach to the cover
remove the oil pan bolts that attach to the cover and loosen all the rest
remove the crank pulley ( I cannot remember if you need to move the A/C and/or the PS pulleys)
remove all the bolts that hold the cover in place
try removing the cover
find the bolt you missed that is still holding the cover on

The oil pan should really be removed so you can install a new gasket, but you can maybe get by without. Removing the oil pan involves lifting the motor up as high as you can to get the pan out over the cross member.

It might be possible to repair the hole with the cover in place with a liquid metal product. But, you really need to know what caused it and make sure there are no pieces of metal "lying harmlessly in the oil pan", because there is no such thing as "harmlessly" in the oil pan.

scottmcphee · #8 05-28-2011, 09:59 AM

Guess: debris, tool, or fastener fell into the oil pan through the turbo oil drain tube hole, got caught by timing chain and punched it out. The object could have been sitting loose in the replacement turbo. Check you timing chain and all teeth on cam sprocket for damage as well. Check your vacuum pump for self destruction as well, it could have released its ball bearings into the oil pan.

tonye2991 · #9 05-29-2011, 05:03 PM

Im gonna take a picture today and post a pic of the hole it is directly underneath where the crankshaft comes out. GregMN thanks for the explanation thats very helpful, im gonna take the timing chain cover off and drain the oil. with the cover off will I be able to see into the bottom of the oil pan?

Jeremy5848 · #10 05-29-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonye2991

Im gonna take a picture today and post a pic of the hole it is directly underneath where the crankshaft comes out. GregMN thanks for the explanation thats very helpful, im gonna take the timing chain cover off and drain the oil. with the cover off will I be able to see into the bottom of the oil pan?

The 603 engine has a right side oil pan bolted to the main oil pan; it was added by the factory as a way to increase the oil capacity of the engine while still fitting in the chassis. If you drain the oil and unbolt that side pan, you can see into the main oil pan without having to remove anything else and you can grab and remove anything lying in the bottom of the pan. You may need a new gasket for the side oil pan.

Depending on the size and shape of the hole, and on the configuration of the timing cover at that point, you may be able to cut a piece of sheet aluminum and glue it over the hole as a patch. If you can find the piece(s) that were knocked out of the TC, you can glue them back in place along with the patch. There isn't any significant pressure at that point so the glue will have to withstand only ["only," he says] hot oil. A high-temperature silicone probably would work. The surfaces would have to be very clean and oil-free (use alcohol) and a primer would be recommended. If that works, you wouldn't have to remove the TC.

Jeremy

tonye2991 · #11 05-29-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

The 603 engine has a right side oil pan bolted to the main oil pan; it was added by the factory as a way to increase the oil capacity of the engine while still fitting in the chassis. If you drain the oil and unbolt that side pan, you can see into the main oil pan without having to remove anything else and you can grab and remove anything lying in the bottom of the pan. You may need a new gasket for the side oil pan.

Depending on the size and shape of the hole, and on the configuration of the timing cover at that point, you may be able to cut a piece of sheet aluminum and glue it over the hole as a patch. If you can find the piece(s) that were knocked out of the TC, you can glue them back in place along with the patch. There isn't any significant pressure at that point so the glue will have to withstand only ["only," he says] hot oil. A high-temperature silicone probably would work. The surfaces would have to be very clean and oil-free (use alcohol) and a primer would be recommended. If that works, you wouldn't have to remove the TC.

Jeremy

Ohhhh I see what your saying, how difficult is it to get to and remove because If its not to hard maybe I could do that and then JB Weld the hole shut.

tonye2991 · #12 05-29-2011, 10:47 PM

Also what type of oil do I use once Im done, because the car was in need of an oil change anyway.

vstech · #13 05-29-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonye2991

Also what type of oil do I use once Im done, because the car was in need of an oil change anyway.

any quality diesel rated oil for your climate will be fine.

I prefer synthetic diesel rated oil in my 603 equipped engines.

Jeremy5848 · #14 05-29-2011, 10:57 PM

Removing the timing cover takes a fair amount of work; I've never done it and would not look forward to it. You have to remove everything in front of the engine (radiator, etc.). I think the crankshaft vibration damper requires a special puller -- not sure. In theory it's possible to leave the head and oil pan in place but the timing cover is sandwiched in between them so a leak-free re-installation can be tricky.

If you can get at the cover and put a patch over the hole you might not have to pull the cover. I don't know if JB Weld would take the heat and oil exposure; my first choice would be a high-temperature silicone sealer. If that doesn't work and you end up removing the timing cover, you could either clean it up and have a shop weld an aluminum patch over the hole or you could replace the cover with a new (or used) one.

Removing the side oil pan is easy. Just jack up the car, remove the front belly panel, drain the oil, and remove a bunch of 6 mm bolts (10 mm socket wrench and extension) that hold the side oil pan to the main pan. Then you can inspect the inside of the oil pan and remove any debris. The side oil pan has its own gasket, which you can buy from FastLane or your dealer.

EDIT: I use Chevron Delo-400 15W-40 (a dino oil) in my '87 and Mobil-1 5W-40 synthetic in my '96, both for personal reasons. There are a million oil threads on this forum for you to read and educate yourself. Bottom line, you need to use a diesel-rated oil (because of the soot) and you need to change it and the filter at regular intervals, depending on how you drive, the overall condition of the engine, and the type of oil. Oil in an engine is sort of like the blood in your body -- the cleaner you keep it the longer your engine will last.

Jeremy

tonye2991 · #15 06-01-2011, 12:20 PM

So I just took the side panel off my oil pan and theres about 2 handfulls off plastic and a washer in there. Im assuming my vacuum pump went bad and thats what made the hole in my timing chain cover.... Any suggestions? the motor still runs would I be able to clean all the pieces out and replace the vacuum pump?