1. Nothing.
2. Nothing.
See: Mythbusters.

Propane in houses (and boats) is extremely dangerous. It is heavier than air, will sink to the floor and won't dissipate. If you have a propane cookstove or furnace, you should have a drain in the floor so any propane which escapes can flow out of the house. Since in houses, the source of propane is typically a very large tank, it seems far more dangerous to me than propane in a car's AC system which is a limited amount of flammable gas.

Cheap and readily available. I remember reading years ago that small fishing boats in the Arabian gulf use propane as the refrigerant in their systems for keeping fish cold.

Actually, it leaks in both cases, if the calibre is high enough to penetrate the tank. The vapors; however, if allowed to accumulate, can be very explosive. In this instance discussed , the volume will likely be many times higher than the small volume in a closed A/C system. But I digress...

This has been fun :)

:)

Propane could be corrosive or may eat rubber seals as well :confused:

Just something else to think about.

I have heard that some OLD refrigeration units used ammonia :eek: Plus they were insulated with cork sprayed with formaldehyde :eek:

Gosh!!!

Look at what I started! I was just thinking that I don't know which oils are in the system. I have read where freeze12 and propane will work with either oils
Also I have talked to some locals and they say it do not make any difference which one to use, 134 or 12. they will work when mixed. However my 300sd has the 134 fitting installed on the low side. The ac worked good before I quit driving it and it sat for 2 yrs. So I am going to shoot the 134 to it and see what happens

Thanks and no thanks to all the bs and infighting guys.

End of this thread, I hope!

Tom

Cost (less), Cooling (better), Pressures (less then R12 if you go 60/40 with propane / isobutane AKA R600), compatibility with mineral oil, less affect on the environment (no ozone or greenhouse affects).



-J

Using the same logic to condenm propane I can conceive an instance where it would actually be SAFER than R12 in a collision scenario. Car A slams into the rear of Car B. Car B's fuel tank is compromised and ignited. Car A's condensor is compromised and begins to evacuate.

If Car A has R12 the flames from the fuel tank fire will burn the R12 and release mustard gas potentially posioning / killing people in the vicinity. If Car A has R290, the charge will burn with the tank's fuel releasing water vapor and CO2. Point goes to Propane.

I think the problem with this discussion is that people associate relative risk with no risk. Take the argument being made you don't want flamable materials flowing though the dash. R134A is flammable with a surprisingly low flash point when pressurized but nobody is afraid of R134A. I think they should be, flammability issues aside, it's a known carcinigen associated with testicular cancer. Now that is something I wouldn't want flowing though my dash. R12 destroys ozone and decomposes into mustard gas. Again risk is present. They weren't the approved refrigerants b/c they are what's safest and best performing, they are the only approved refrigerants b/c Dupont has the market cornered and enough politicians pockets to keep better performing 1$/pound refrigerants off the market.

As the OP, you can lock the thread.

I think your approach is perfectly reasonable for your car. You may consider having someone evacuate the system prior to filling, or not, your call.

R12 was Designed and used because of its physics properties... when it turned to liquid and back to gas and the pressures involved in that... along with the ability to carry the oil around the system to lube the compressor...

You probably believe that Contrails are evidence chemicals are being sprayed on us to keep us under control.....as compared to water molecules pushed together by planes traveling from one place to another...

I'm not following your logic, propane's latent heat of evaporation is almost 3 times better than r12 (184 btu/lb versus 66 btu/lb), and is compatible with more oils....They designed it to not be as good?

YOU MEAN THEY AREN'T CHEMTRAILS???? :rolleyes:

I agree.

Do you understand they use it for Bar B Que grills ?

A mixture of butane and propane is the best in my opinion.

It is no more or less dangerous than most other refrigerant.

It has produced cooler temperatures for me.

It is far less expensive.

Far less hazardous to the environment than some refrigerant.

And this information could save people hundreds if not a grand or more
in there efforts to have a better performing ac.

Instead of changing condensors, adding fans, changing, or buying new pumps.
They can simply switch refrigerant.

Well, Dang . . . gotta use my brain . . .
 

Guess I'm gonna have to look it up in the hazmat book to see which one is more explosive, as in the case of a pressurized tank of R134A, R12, or Propane. I do know that Propane being transported requires placards and is a HazMat load. I also know that over so many cans of refrigerant, and it has to be treated as hasmat, therefore, most shippers now break up the volume, ship them separately, so it doesn't have to be treated as hazmat. I suspect, without having the book in front of me, that propane is the least of DOT's worries.

Oooops, can't find the book, is obviously in my glove box in the Peterbilt parked 10 miles away.

However, a hazmat placard, to my knowledge is not required for the 5-gal tanks on RVs, so I would imagine that DOT doesn't consider that little propane to be a hazard. I also agree with an earlier statement that any piercing of condensor would result in an immediate escape before it would have a chance to catch fire. Also, gas requires a flame or spark to flame up, no just a cigarette head glowing . . . LOL. Also, even if the entire load of 2.5 lbs escaped into the passenger compartment, there are enough escapes for the gas to find, especially if a window is open, thereby, not causing any measurable risk.

But, this has been a fun read, if nothing else!!!!

Yep, sure do.

Do you know what else you can use ?

It is used in bbq grills because it is relatively less dangerous than some other hydrocarbons.

And because its cheaper.

How do you get it in the system? Are there adapters for gauge sets?

as an HVAC tech, I deal with propane often. it's the most dangerous form of heat there is.
more dangerous than any other type of fuel, still the most dangerous fuel as deaths and house fires are concerned is Electric due to wiring faults etc burning down buildings.
that said, a propane fuel fired furnace will require more service to keep from becoming hazardous, due to variables and such that cause soot buildup blocking flue gasses. also a leak will remain in the area due to it's heavy gas nature.
Natural gas is different, it will float above the air and dissipate. the only way propane moves is from a fire or with wind...

I'd not want to be in a car accident with propane in my car.

Just curious... How do you feel about airbags?
I notice your fleet looks to be prior to airbag date, so I guess I have my answer. :)

You are the author of more than one Wikipedia articles... right ?
Any of them deal with how to retrofit an air bag into our cars safely ?

Yep! I be big-time author...(actually, not Wikipedia, but wiki here for the record)!
Was paid handsomely for the articles. Still living off of the residuals...

LOL

(although my 560 does have one...hmmmm)

Why would you imply that Vstech does not believe in airbags just because his cars are prefactory installed air bag years ?
Especially since I have never heard of anyone retrofitting them into cars that did not come stock with them ?
Most of us acquire the cars we can based on condition and cost ...and happenstance.. since we have to depend on the used car marketplace...

You missed the point...
I was proffering a bad joke on explosive devices inside the passenger compartment, compared with the allegedly explosive propane refrigerant...

Just as I finished the post, I realized most of his fleet was pre-airbag, so my joke was moot.

You Too Serious, me thinks :)

This thread is starting to wax & wain far too much.
Those with training & knowledge on air con appear to all think propane in a car aircon is a bad idea. Some others appear to be trolling for an argument.
There hasnt been any real new information about propane in car aircon for many posts.
I wish the OP or mod would just close the thread & let it disappear into PP history.

Went right over my head...obviously....

I suggested Vstech close it after his post...that would have been an excellent ' last word '....

I was working on it but it kept knocking my glasses off while I was on the freeway...

You are lucky that is all it knocked off....

If you have real experience using propane as a refrigerant, please tell us what you have learned.

I for one would like to know more.

Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus
What happens if you shoot a propane tank with a high-calbre firearm? Above the liquid line? Below the liquid line?


Sumthin's gotta happen!::confused:

Actually propylene & ethylene, several thousand hp units, while working for Exxon not long after I graduated.
Its used in industry a lot. All the associated equipment is intrinsically safe, no sparks or static.
Try doing some reading about ethylene/propylene production.

Wait a minute! The subject is propane in an auto AC system but now you're talking dangers of propane for home heating and then sidetracked to electric home heating being even more dangerous. What's the point?

One could simply grab all of the airbag bits from a W126 so equipped.

-J

the point is to show one of the dangers of propane...

another major issue with propane in a mobile a/c system is it's dissolving abilities. extreme affinity to rubber components. any non barrier hose will dissolve quickly with propane in it.

another major issue with propane in automotive systems is pressure. it's not unheard of to see pressures of 800 in a propane system... over 3000 is possible in extreme situations that DO occur in a mobile system. testing can show component failure on the order of bolts shattering and penetrating fenders/hoods...

lets just say that retrofitting the stuff is not recommended by this mechanic, and leave it at that.