Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:05 PM
JB3 JB3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 7,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post


Thats because he is using a cheap non-dampened (fluid filled) gauge.


Please link to the dyno sheet showing his vehicle's power output. Butt-DynoŽ is not a calibrated system.

Thats my gauge, the in line snubber was broken at that point, but it still delivered accurate fuel pressure, but would pulse with the lift pump.

It was an expensive isspro fuel gauge, I replaced the fluid filled snubber and it worked properly. Ironically, it was more accurate when broken, as it would show actual fuel pulses, not just an evened out flow.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:10 PM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,416
Hmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
who is comparing the 6.5 to the OM617 and why? Stop making a habit out of missing the point.

The 6.5 uses a 10-20 psi electric lift pump, therefore if you go into a parts store looking for a cheap electric emergency pump that will work, requesting that vehicle and engine option will get you a pump that has a very similar output and would work in this application.

What the engine is and why compared to the OM617 is pointless. If a 2.0 gas powered ford escort used a 12 volt lift pump that had similar specs to the mechanical lift pump on the diesels, I would also suggest that vehicle.

Finding your way through the density of parts counter personnel at auto stores is why I brought up the 6.5. You are feeding them info that will arrive at the part that you can use.
IMO cost is critical in the current economy.

I get electric fuel pumps at the salvage yard for $14.00 each.
This allows me to buy several each time = spares to keep in the trunk and on the shelf.

Changing one of these = five minutes work.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:18 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
who is comparing the 6.5 to the OM617 and why? Stop making a habit out of missing the point.
Then stop making a habit of suggesting junk parts for a system you don't understand.

Quote:
I would also suggest that vehicle.
And that is the problem here. You know next to nothing about fuel systems (even to the point of suggesting a lawn mower has a fuel regulator) yet you're making suggestions on how to modify them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
Learn what? that a poor suggestion by you cannot be discussed without you switching into an infant?
Sorry, no, you've got the situation reversed in your head.

Quote:
I think a powerstroke high pressure pump is the worst choice of all 12 volt pumps you could possibly find out there for someone to install in an emergency, and in any other situation.
Seriously? Until an hour ago you didn't even know there was a pressure regulator in the fuel system! You have no ground to evaluate the application of anything here.

Quote:
The reasons why is its just plain wrong as far as specs, and just too expensive to play with.
Hello? You don't even know what the specs need to be! On top of that, whunter already pointed out the cheap availability of the pumps in scrapyards. Why would anyone here consider buying one new?
A used high output pump is far better than a new piece of junk that barely meets the minimum needs of the fuel system.

Quote:
It was an expensive isspro fuel gauge
ISSPRO ≠ Expensive. They are good gauges for casual automotive use, but they are not accurate instruments.
Got that dyno sheet I asked for?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:27 PM
Bio Brewer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post

Yes. Thats how all regulators work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
No. The N14 and push lawn mowers do not use external pressure regulators. An N14 controls the entire injection process by fuel pressure (PT system), the throttle directly controls the fuel pressure. Lawn mower fuel pressure is controlled by the carb's float and gravity.

So technically you were wrong in your previous post then? Just saying... you said that is how all regulators work...
__________________
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette"
'85 Federal 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 474
No. Lawn mowers do not have a regulator, they work by gravity, and the N14 has a throttling orifice, not a regulator.
Take some time off from replying to this post and read up on the topic.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:36 PM
Bio Brewer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
The 6.5 is a pile of garbage.
If it's such a pile of garbage why did you choose to use an air filter from a 6.5 on your mercedes ?
__________________
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette"
'85 Federal 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:39 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 474
Grasp tighter on those straws!

Quote:
Originally Posted by capflya View Post
If it's such a pile of garbage why did you choose to use an air filter from a 6.5 on your mercedes ?
I didn't. The 6.5L uses a flat panel filter.
The filter I use was applied to the 8.1L big block gas engine.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Bio Brewer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
I didn't. The 6.5L uses a flat panel filter.
The filter I use was applied to the 8.1L big block gas engine.
Orly?

Hmm... I guess Summit is wrong... and several other sites.. maybe you should call them and let them know?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FRM-CA8038/Application/?query=Liter|6.5|Make|CHEVROLET
__________________
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette"
'85 Federal 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
I've used a "clacker type" Advance Auto generic pump on both a 616 and a 617, completely reliable if you get the higher pressure one (aka not the 4 psi one).
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:46 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 474
GRASP TIGHTER ON YOUR STRAW CAPFLYA!

Quote:
Originally Posted by capflya View Post
I guess Summit is wrong... and several other sites.. maybe you should call them and let them know?
Try using a reputable parts source instead of a faux-performance site.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:13 PM
Bio Brewer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Try using a reputable parts source instead of a faux-performance site.
Ahem....

https://napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=PSW26440_0242491591&An=599001+101998+50014+2014027

http://oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Air+Filter/02512/C0023.oap?make=Chevrolet&model=C2500&year=1998&vi=1303423

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1998-Chevrolet-C2500-3-4ton-P-U-2WD/Air-Filter/_/N-ja7qxZ8gcsh?filterByKeyWord=air+filter&fromString=search


I suppose these are faux-auto parts stores and not what you would consider reputable.
__________________
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette"
'85 Federal 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
There is your key. Allow the pressure regulator to do its job and don't pinch off any of your fuel lines.


FYI, thats not how fuel pumps on engines are operated.


Do you have any understanding of whats actually in your car's fuel system? What do you call this:
Never seen a carbureted engine? Pumps are dead headed all the time.
__________________
1982 300D Turbo ... The Tank
1972 GMC Sprint (El Camino)
SBC Vortech Supercharged.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G73Q8cSpEbs
2009 Buell 1125CR ... 146 American made horse power on two wheels
1988 Jeep XJ
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:34 PM
psaboic's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,226
Guys, a quick question as I am still learning a bit about my 83 300D with the OM 617. I always thought the injection pump was the only fuel pump on the car. Is it? Or am I wrong and their is another fuel pump on the car called the "lift pump"

Am I basically right in assuming the OP had his injection pump go bad and wants to replace it with an electric pump?

If the OM 617 has an additional pump besides the injection pump, please let me know so I can search for info on it. I'm thinking I might want to install an electric pump for peace of mind.

Glenn
__________________
2012 Mercedes ML350 Bluetec 91K (hers)
2005 Corvette 55K (fun car)
2002 VW Jetta TDI 231K (mine)
1998 Volvo S70 T5 Turbo 196K (kids)
1994 Ford F150 4WD 249K (firewood hauler)
1983 Mercedes 300D 376K (diesel commuter)
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-30-2011, 07:11 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
Pumps are dead headed all the time.
Those are very low pressure and the pumps are designed to be dead headed. There are no automotive electric fuel pumps designed to be deadheaded, they would quickly overheat and cause vapor lock in gasoline systems (same as running a fuel tank near empty).

Quote:
Originally Posted by psaboic View Post
I always thought the injection pump was the only fuel pump on the car. Is it? Or am I wrong and their is another fuel pump on the car called the "lift pump"
The fuel pump is mounted to the side of the injection pump.

Quote:
I'm thinking I might want to install an electric pump for peace of mind.
No. The fuel pump is extremely simple and reliable. An electric pump does the same function while adding complication and several more potential points of failure.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-30-2011, 10:39 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by psaboic View Post
Guys, a quick question as I am still learning a bit about my 83 300D with the OM 617. I always thought the injection pump was the only fuel pump on the car. Is it? Or am I wrong and their is another fuel pump on the car called the "lift pump"

Am I basically right in assuming the OP had his injection pump go bad and wants to replace it with an electric pump?

If the OM 617 has an additional pump besides the injection pump, please let me know so I can search for info on it. I'm thinking I might want to install an electric pump for peace of mind.

Glenn
On the Right side sort of in the middle of your Fuel Injection Pump you have a Fuel Supply/Lift Pump Bolted on to it.
On your Year and Model there is also a Hand Primer Pump screwed into the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump.

So there is a Fuel Injection Pump (supplies high pressure Fuel to the Injectors), a Fuel Supply/Lift Pump (supplies the Fuel Injection Pump with a large volume of Fuel at a lower pressure compared to the amount that is Injected into the Injectors. Most of which runs through the Fuel Injection Pump and out the Pressure Relief/Overflow Valve to cool the Fuel Injection Pump)and a Hand Primer Pump (used for priming the Fuel Injection pump and hopefully getting all of the air out of it).

Blue Arrow = Fuel Supply/Lift Pump
Yellow Arrow = an old style Aluminum bodied Hand Primer. The newer style Hand Primers go in the same spot but are covered with Black Rubber and looks Different.

You need to learn how to Bleed the Air out of your Fuel System. It is a common occurance for a new owner to change the Spin-on Secondary Fuel Filter and not be able to start the Engine even after they have used the Hand Primer. I would do some reading of the below links.

DIY Repair Links
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/forumdisplay.php?f=82
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/DoItYourSelf
Attached Thumbnails
*STRANDED* Lift pump died, can I bypass it with an electric unit?-fuel-injection-pump-240d-x.jpg  

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Last edited by Diesel911; 08-30-2011 at 10:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page