E320 Diesel 96-99 Diesels--Any good???

[777funk]

My mom and dad are considering making a switch from Ford to MB diesel. I like my cars and have had pretty good luck mechanically with them but they're old school MB Diesels.

Is the newer IDI stuff any good? I've read the bad is usually the following:
-IP delivery valve O-rings leaking
-Clear fuel line developing air suckage
-Glow plugs can break in head when removing
-Front suspension spring Perches breaking
-AC Problems


Is that what to usually expect? I know in my experience there's all kinds of little stuff that goes wrong on the older models. Here's what I've experienced with 1980 - 1989 models I've owned:
-HVAC is bad in some way or another on EVERY model owned
-Windows are hesitant to go up and down
-Shutoff valve is bad eventually in all models
-Vacuum leaks!!!
-Power seats don't work
-Cruise control doesn't work


I don't care about half of this and if it does bother me, I fix it. But I'd hate to recommend a MB diesel to my parents and have them having the problems in the second list. There are plenty of Fords and GMs that don't have the problems in the second list. Of course they're Fords and GMs so the drivetrain is usually toast after 150k of average use. But on a MB the "minor" stuff I listed in the second list can cost as much to have fixed as replacing a major component in a Ford.

Just wondering if that second list is also a common list of problems found on the newer MB stuff.
thanks!
Nick

[TheDon]

the 99 E300D Turbodiesel is probably a good year to have

om606 with a turbo
last year of the 606 powered series (IIRC)
most of the issues sorted out

the chasis is pretty good, However, read up on spring perch failures on the w210 chasis... not a pretty thing


I looked at an E300D turbo for the fun of it. even with 180k on it everything still worked like it should(had a starting issue due to an air leak in the fuel system.. which I diagnosed for the guy on the used car lot[ not a mercedes dealership]. Plus it was a FL car and no signs of rust or spring perch issues (I would still get a PPI at the dealership)

[777funk]

I think I read here somewhere that spring perch issues can be taken to the dealer and repaired (beefed up for free), is that the case?

[TheDon]

some have it done out of good faith due to the owner of the car being a repeat customer( nhdoc for one)... others have had to go the legal route and etc etc

google it( with the website name and stuff)

IIRC in their is a TSB sticky on the issue..

[spark3542]

FYI...it's E300, not E320. The 320 is a gasser (for '96-99)

I have a 97 N/A and love it. 96 and 97 are N/A, 98 and 99 are turbo.

Mine already had the spring perches fixed when I bought it.

Power seat switches are a little funky, probably just need a shot of WD40 on the contacts, but since I don't move my seat, I haven't done it yet.

Been running 11k miles now on WVO/RUG blend with no issues, so my cost to operate is about $.02 per mile.

Slowly winning the wife over to MB diesels, so when she's not carting a bunch of kids around (and doesn't need the minivan), she takes my 97. That's when I take the 83 to work. That's about the only time I choose the 83 though. Love the 97.

[777funk]

Well it's good to hear a few good reports since pretty soon our old rides will be extinct from rust or just from being old.

I'd like to hear from some people who've had some trouble and what/how hard the fixes were! It looks like from the pics I've seen changing the fuel injection system rubber components (clear hose and delivery valve O-rings) might be pretty stinking hard to get to. Hard to tell from just photos though.

[Jeremy5848]

We bought a '96 E300D with 248,000 miles last year. Ordinarily I wouldn't buy a car with that many miles but this one had such good records I was confident it was in good shape. This and 1997 had a normally-aspirated version of the engine so it is less powerful than the turbo versions but simpler, of course, since it has no turbo plumbing. It was also less expensive than the later models with the turbo. My wife, who is the primary driver, is perfectly happy with it as it is.

It has always been on the west coast so no rust issues (I checked anyway). It came with a complete set of service records all the way back to Day1 and I have been in touch with all three previous owners.

The most recent PO had the IP o-rings and fuel lines replaced so no fuel leaks, even with B100 biodiesel, which we have been using since we got the car. It gets mid-20s in town and high 20s to low 30s on the road on B100.

I replaced the shocks myself, an easy job, the car still had the originals! which were OK but a little stiff. The 210 car overall is stiffer than the W124 chassis it replaced -- personally, we prefer the older suspension (we have one of them, too). I also replaced the engine mounts, which had collapsed (PO told me in advance). That was an easy job -- no turbo to get in the way and in-line engines are easy anyway. The power steering pump sometimes acts up at low speeds -- I think it is wearing out and the fluid had NEVER been changed. I flushed the system, must do it again soon, and the pump is hanging in there.

Wiring problems are another area to watch. Mercedes used some kind of "environmentally friendly" insulation in the wiring harnesses for a few years. they tend to disintegrate and cause short circuits. We had problems with the back-up lights but nothing worse so far.

The engine has been great. I blocked the EGR valve and cleaned the soot out of the intake pipes; it seemed to improve performance a little bit. The most recent oil test was good (see this thread) The results indicate that the engine is showing very little wear at 252,000 miles. The newer 1998-99 engines have more electronics in the engine, making the EGR function harder to defeat. The soot mixes with crankcase breather oil in the intake and really cruds it up. See this thread for details and pictures.

The 1996 model has the older 4-speed mechanical transmission. We had to have the transmission rebuilt but it was not the car's fault. I put Mobil-1 tranny fluid in it and the old seals couldn't hack it. I was unable to stop the leaks. The transmission mechanic told me that there was still at least 50,000 miles left on the "wear parts" so it would have gone to 300,000 miles if I had left it alone. Oh well. The 1997 and later models have the new (5-speed?) electronic tranny.

All of the 210s have much more in the way of electronic gadgetry inside. You can attach a code reader to the OBD-II port. Driver and passenger have separate A/C controls. Multiple airbags. Almost identical in length to the W124 and W123 cars, will fit in the same garage space.

These are great cars when they work (as they usually do) but the electronic stuff is harder for the average guy to fix in his garage than the older cars, which are much simpler.

I would recommend buying the one that has the best set of service records and has had all of the recommended services done regardless of model year or mileage. Get a pre-purchase inspection and use it as a lever to drive down the sales price. First owners are usually pretty good about keeping up with maintenance. Second and third owners sometimes skimp so you end up with a bunch of deferred maintenance.

Jeremy

[Jeremy5848]

Originally Posted by 777funk

Well it's good to hear a few good reports since pretty soon our old rides will be extinct from rust or just from being old.

I'd like to hear from some people who've had some trouble and what/how hard the fixes were! It looks like from the pics I've seen changing the fuel injection system rubber components (clear hose and delivery valve O-rings) might be pretty stinking hard to get to. Hard to tell from just photos though.

You have to remove the crossover pipe and intake manifold. Not difficult, just time-consuming, an hour or two. Good opportunity to clean the soot out of the pipes.

Jeremy

[Hatterasguy]

They are wonderfull cars I don't understand why people complain about them so much. W210's are so simple to work on.

Get a 1998-99 so it will have the turbo and updated 722.6.

If your parents don't drive much get a gas one, the diesels are overpriced for what they are. If you drive like 20k++ miles a year the diesel makes sense, but if they don't drive much like 10k or less get a gas one. You can get a nice E320 or E430 cheap. The E430's are usualy fully loaded and fantastic cars.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by 777funk

Well it's good to hear a few good reports since pretty soon our old rides will be extinct from rust or just from being old.

I'd like to hear from some people who've had some trouble and what/how hard the fixes were! It looks like from the pics I've seen changing the fuel injection system rubber components (clear hose and delivery valve O-rings) might be pretty stinking hard to get to. Hard to tell from just photos though.

Nah you can take the intake off a turbo charged 606 in no time. I don't know why people complain about those clear fuel lines. Sure they leak when they get old, but they are dirt cheap and take like 10 minutes to change. Plus they are plastic don't touch them and they won't leak.

[nate300d]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

They are wonderfull cars I don't understand why people complain about them so much.

Mine likes repairs.

[DieselAddict]

I think a lot of the electronic problems can be fixed by replacing the K40 relay. The tell-tale sign of a bad K40 is the engine cutting out while driving, but a bad one may cause other problems as well, like the variety of warning messages that I had popping up on the display below the speedometer. I have the impression that replacing this relay fixed all of the above. It's also a good idea to lubricate the intake manifold flaps every now and then because if they stick they will cause an error message as well.

Overall I've been pretty happy with my car, but only after I went through some major repairs first, especially the spring perches and fuel leaks.

[DieselAddict]

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

The engine has been great. I blocked the EGR valve and cleaned the soot out of the intake pipes; it seemed to improve performance a little bit.

Did you not get an error message after blocking the EGR valve? I know mine will throw an error code if I disconnect any of the related hoses. Even with a working EGR my oil analysis comes back with minimal wear and soot and the oil stays clear for a few hundred miles after an oil change, pretty amazing for a diesel. EGR is not all bad. In addition to lowering emissions it also lowers combustion temperatures which is good for the engine. Unless the EGR valve is stuck I don't think it will noticeably lower the life expectancy of the engine.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by nate300d

Mine likes repairs.

All Mercedes do!

[Rapier]

what grade fluid is used on the power steering for the e300d