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John-84-300D · #31 12-21-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Sounds like a good trade. While many of us here "get" the W123 and are willing to put up with it's old age issues, it seems the OP doesn't. He seems to be the only human I've ever heard of who actually likes a Ford Tempo, but he knows it well and is happy with it. Make your trade, enjoy your Mustang, and let that 300D go to someone who appreciates it.

I don't recall warranting such harshness, I do appreciate the Benz for what it is, it's just not my typical cup of tea. Are you so narrow minded that you can't fathom why somebody new to these cars might take issue with some of their quriks? I've had over 100 cars, two were German, one burnt (a VW, big surprise huh?) and the other is the 300D. By contrast, I've had about 15 or so Tempos, and about the same number Taurus, so I got to know those cars extreamly well and how to fix/deal with most of their common issues. Like I said, I pushed a '93 past 300,000 and a '97 past 200K before I was stupid enough to sell it to a kid (Sable, but same car anyway). When something goes wrong on the Ford, I know how to fix it. I just replaced the ignition switch today, cost $10 at autozone, how much would one be for the 300D? And in stock? LOL!

If I'm the only human you've ever heard of who likes a Ford Tempo, then consider how many Ford was able to sell in 10 years: Hundreds of thousands per year and also consider why there is a privately funded (though not as nice as this) website/forum dedicated soley to Tempo and it's Mercury twin, the Topaz. www.tempotopaz.com I'm John92LX. I talk about the Benz often, you can even see pics of it on there. Think about this, Ford sold about half a million Tempos in the 1984 model year alone (combined coupes and sedans). Apperently, some people liked them and still do. Even in their last "half" year (production ended in the spring of 1994), they still sold over 160,000. Ford had to have two plants working double shift to keep up with demand for the Tempo. The only thing that killed it is the amount of money they wasted designing the Mondeo/Contour, which is why Contour never sold nearly as well as the Tempo had and Ford lost money on it. If they'd updated the Tempo with dual airbags, more modern (late '90s esque) switch gear, an overdrive automatic, 4-wheel ABS/disk, and gave it a fresh apperance, they'd have made a lot of money off of it for several more years until it could no longer conform to new frontal impact standards (implemented in 1998). Even Ford basically admitted that they kinda screwed up by dumping the money-making Tempo for the money-losing Contour in the US market. Those 1998 impact standard mandates is a big reason why 1997 was the last year for the Aerostar, Aspire, Probe and Thunderbird, as well as the Chevy Corsica/Beretta if I'm not mistaken, though their N body cousins (the Skylark and Achieva) continued in fleet sales only the next year IIRC.

What scares me is the price of the parts and the high labor costs on a car I know virtually nothing about, v.s. simple maintinance on a car I know inside and out. If you drove my 300D back to back with my Tempo GLS (and knew what you were doing), you'd agree that the Tempo handles better, is faster, more economical despite having as much or more low end torque without the future-expensive-as-he!! turbocharger. It takes the 300D forever to wind up to speed, the Tempo will do 120+ anytime I feel like flooring it. The Mercedes barely broke 90 with me once and felt as though it was about to self destruct. There are only about 20,000 miles difference between my GLS and 300D, and the 300D has had MUCH more care, MUCH more maintenance, etc than the Tempo, which has been abused to within an inch of it's life more than anybody could fathom.

I'm bouncing out ideas about getting rid of the Benz mostly because it now reminds me of somebody I'd rather not think about, and because of it's high cost to repair and redundancy (I already have two other good running sedans) compared to a mid-1990s Ford F-150 that I'd love to replace it with.

The Mustang guy was going to be out of town for the weekend and I never heard back again about it after that, so somebody probably cashed him out or he got cold feet about the deal.

Anyway, the 300D is now on jackstands and I guess I'm stuck rebuilding the front-end. I REALLY was hoping to avoid this but the steering dampner snapped and every bushing, etc looks worn beyond it's usefull life. CHOOO CHOOO here comes the money train, straight outta my wallet and into a car that'll never be worth as much as I'm forced to put into it. I know the same is true for the Tempo, but I rebuilt the whole front end, minus struts/springs, for less than $250 and did all the labor myself. It's rack-and-pinion steering is LIGHTYEARS ahead of the Benz's jigsaw puzzle of a steering setup.

John-84-300D · #32 12-21-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

LOL!

I am old enough to remember when that 66 mustang was new! I was a junior in Hi School. The ball joints and U joints from the factory only lasted about 30K miles.

I suppose any replacement parts you can buy for them now will last 100K though so probably they are a lot more durable than they ever thought about when new.

The 123 though by contrast May well have original suspension parts still living after 200k and more. The tie rod ends tend to go around 100K or so but they are the only "short" lived suspension parts on the car.

Heck the shock absorbers tend to last 100K or more from the factory too.

It is true the parts are expensive but you seldom have to replace them all at once.

Oh well. I suppose if he is a Ford guy that is the way he needs to go. I don't think it is too easy to go wrong getting a running 66 stang that is not very rusty and flipping it.

That '93 Taurus I pushed past 300K? OE struts, springs, etc. (Same on the 200K+ '97 Sable.) Had needed only as much transmission work in it's life as the 300D I have now has had according to recipts (recipts show the Benz had the trans removed and resealed with 171K miles, the Taurus had the equivilent at 198K miles). My GLS has 196K as of today and has all four original struts/springs, they even say Motorcraft on them (you can barely read it, they're just as worn as the Benz's to be honest).

I had just began to replace things like the stabalizer bar (something the W123 could REALLY use to keep it from wallowing so hard in turns) links on the Taurus, etc, when the bug to sell it and move on bit. Many of those early Taurus and Tempos went well past 200 or 300K, but because of their 5-digit odometers, you can't tell it. I know several guys who've gotten 300K+ out of a Tempo and or Taurus, besides myself!

cmbdiesel · #33 12-21-2011, 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=John-84-300D;2851503]I don't recall warranting such harshness,

"the Tempo handles better, is faster, more economical despite having as much or more low end torque without the future-expensive-as-he!! turbocharger. It takes the 300D forever to wind up to speed, the Tempo will do 120+ anytime I feel like flooring it. The Mercedes barely broke 90 with me once and felt as though it was about to self destruct. "

Seems like you just did....

bet when the 300D hits Craigslist it will be getting 35 mpg anytime too ....

John-84-300D · #34 12-21-2011, 09:27 PM

[QUOTE=cmbdiesel;2851531]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John-84-300D

I don't recall warranting such harshness,

"the Tempo handles better, is faster, more economical despite having as much or more low end torque without the future-expensive-as-he!! turbocharger. It takes the 300D forever to wind up to speed, the Tempo will do 120+ anytime I feel like flooring it. The Mercedes barely broke 90 with me once and felt as though it was about to self destruct. "

Seems like you just did....

bet when the 300D hits Craigslist it will be getting 35 mpg anytime too ....

Well, yeah, I suppose but it was in response to a guy who was basically giving me the finger without doing so outright about my choice in what I drive. I really appreciate the advice, etc I've recieved here, but I am just more used to open-minded people who don't have to go around critisizing other people's cars to get their point accross. I am not trying to bash the W123, but he insinuated that the Ford is a pile of junk compared to the 300D and that's simply not the case. It is a quick little car, 'specially with the close-ratio 5-speed.

The 300D was on craigslist for 2600 and I got 0 bites. Somebody offered me $2k for the GLS "when my taxes come in", but I'm not trying to sell it. Point is, apperently they're worth about as much as each other, lol.

About fuel mileage: The MOST I've gotten out of the 300D was 28 MPG (got about 19-22 before filters/oil changed) and I was very easy on it to get that. The Tempo gets that all day long with me driving it like I stole it, lol. It gets 29 or 30 if I'm easier on it and make sure to use non-ethonol gasoline. It has 3.73 final drive ratio, so it pulls 3,000 RPMs at 70 MPH, still, the 300D is pulling about 3300, 3400 RPM at the same speed on the same road.

I dont want to make anybody an enemy here by bragging on my Tempo, but all the things I've said about it are true and I stand behind them. I mean no offense to that guy or anybody else by my comments on the two cars. It's just my honest opinion.

cmbdiesel · #35 12-21-2011, 10:19 PM

opinions are like a55holes, everybody's got one, and round here most people think these old Mecedes are about the finest vehicles ever made. You like the Tempo? great, more power to ya. All most of us want is to keep our MBZ going, help others do the same, and maybe save one here and there from a bad end.
Personally, I take no offense at the way you dis on the 123, it just isn't the car for you. They are not fast, nor are they meant to be. What they are is an extremely well engineered car that will provide reliable, comfortable, and safe transportation for about as long as you want to keep maintaining them. They are not expensive to maintain, but it can be expensive to catch up with decades of neglected maintenance. The simple fact that so many of these vehicles survive despite the lack of upkeep is a tribute to the design. I daresay that the 123 will be in existence long after the last Tempo is crushed...long after. Doesn't mean it's better to you, but it does mean it's better to us.
If you do decide to rid yourself of the old Mercedes, do us a favor and see that it goes to a good home... there is a "Cars for sale" section on this forum...

John-84-300D · #36 12-22-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

opinions are like a55holes, everybody's got one, and round here most people think these old Mecedes are about the finest vehicles ever made. You like the Tempo? great, more power to ya. All most of us want is to keep our MBZ going, help others do the same, and maybe save one here and there from a bad end.
Personally, I take no offense at the way you dis on the 123, it just isn't the car for you. They are not fast, nor are they meant to be. What they are is an extremely well engineered car that will provide reliable, comfortable, and safe transportation for about as long as you want to keep maintaining them. They are not expensive to maintain, but it can be expensive to catch up with decades of neglected maintenance. The simple fact that so many of these vehicles survive despite the lack of upkeep is a tribute to the design. I daresay that the 123 will be in existence long after the last Tempo is crushed...long after. Doesn't mean it's better to you, but it does mean it's better to us.
If you do decide to rid yourself of the old Mercedes, do us a favor and see that it goes to a good home... there is a "Cars for sale" section on this forum...

I suppose I'll take the high road here and say your point is taken, if not quite as well as your sarcasim and cynicism.

Bottom line: The 300D has lead a pampered life compared to my 1990s Fords, they need(ed) about the same amount of work at about the same mileage, if neglected, they failed, if kept alive, they stayed alive. People are less likely to religiously maintain a Taurus or Tempo (or Fusion or Focus) as they are a Mercedes and BMW, and given the price difference, I would expect the prestigious German marque to be better at everything, only to find it's merly adequate for it's time as far as I can tell, and not THAT much different at the level of decay at 200K miles/20+ years if treated the same.

The ONLY place where the Mercedes exceeds all of the 1980s/1990s Fords I've owned is in it's paint job. It looks factory fresh after a good buff, save for some rock chips up around the headlight bezels. If the chrome trim wasn't so faded and the plastic grille not so brittle, it'd be in amazing shape for 27 years old. As it stands, it's a 20 footer. Not a bad 20 footer, but a 20 footer nonetheless.

Brian Carlton · #37 12-22-2011, 09:24 PM

That's gotta be a first............somebody comparing a Tempo to a W123 and preferring the former.............

Just shows that the world is full of all kinds of people.

I drove a Tempo once..........as a rental car..........I thought the damn thing was going to run me off the road at 60mph...........unbelievable POS. That vehicle isn't worth $25.00. to anybody with any sense.

But, there are those that clearly love it.

vstech · #38 12-22-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John-84-300D

Anyway, the 300D is now on jackstands and I guess I'm stuck rebuilding the front-end. I REALLY was hoping to avoid this but the steering dampner snapped and every bushing, etc looks worn beyond it's usefull life. CHOOO CHOOO here comes the money train, straight outta my wallet and into a car that'll never be worth as much as I'm forced to put into it. I know the same is true for the Tempo, but I rebuilt the whole front end, minus struts/springs, for less than $250 and did all the labor myself. It's rack-and-pinion steering is LIGHTYEARS ahead of the Benz's jigsaw puzzle of a steering setup.

aw, come on!!!

nobody in their right mind would consider the strut/single control arm/rack and pinion only steering to be light years ahead of the solid steel lower control arm, forged aluminum upper control arm, with solid steel antisway linked directly to the upper control arm, steering box with drag links, and dampeners!
I mean, sure the tempo is lighter and has less parts to fail, but really? light years better suspension? really?
how often did the tempo need an alignment? how did it fair on front tires? I liked my 90Sable wagon, but I'd never consider it to light years of quality better in front end suspension...

I agree, modern cars all get phenomenal mileage and longevity. the fact that the 123 is a 40 year old design should say something about it's design quality...