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  #1  
Old 02-02-2012, 01:36 AM
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HELP! 5-Spd conversion

I'm on the home stretch with this one, but I have a problem.

Today I bled the clutch, adjusted and installed the shift linkages, installed my brand new custom made drive shaft, and installed the transmission mount.

I jacked up the rear of the car and just wanted to see if I could get the wheels to turn. In 2,3,4,5 and R the wheels move. 1st gear however, has a problem.
I can shift into 1st gear just fine (as far as I can tell) I press in the clutch, move the shift lever up and it feels very positive that it is in gear. As soon as I begin to let out the clutch, well, very bad gear metal sounds happen and the shifter is forced back into the neutral position. It is very obvious that something is not right in a big way, this is not subtle.

PLEASE TELL ME MY TRANS IS NOT BAD!!!

It must be some little adjustment that I don't know about, right?

In the interest of full disclosure I will tell you that I did not check the tranny fluid, I know this sounds stupid but It was 9pm I didn't have the tool and I just wanted to see if the wheels would turn.


Any Ideas?

Thank you!!!

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Kevin

1971 300SEL 3.5
1972 280SE 4.5
1968 280S Parts Car
1983 300D (5-spd conversion almost completed!)
1986 Toyota pickup 22R 4-spd
1968 Mustang 302 (soon to be 5-spd)
1981 Euro-spec 300d 4-spd parts car

Sold:
1987 300D (had 415,000 miles when I sold it, now has 462,000 and still driven every day!! Original head)
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:40 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
Did you try the gears in the tranny with it out of the car?

If it worked on the ground it should work in the car.

The only thing I can think of to check is to be sure the shift arms are not fouling on the driveshaft somehow.

Good luck!
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:35 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Have you gotten under the car and shifted into first manually? You should be able to see and feel full travel of that transmission lever. You might have to put the trans in neutral and remove the shift rod from the lever. Might just be shifter adjustment if the lever clunks in solidly without the rod.

Good luck
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2012, 11:28 AM
ashedd's Avatar
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sounds like it's not fully in 1st. Perhaps some binding linkage. Do what the others say and disconnect all the linkage and put it in 1st manually and see if it still pops out of gear.
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83 300SD
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2012, 11:46 AM
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It really does sound like 1st is not fully engaged doesn't it. I didn't realize that last night, I think I was too tired. If I get time today I'll remove that shift rod and engage 1st gear with my hand and see if that works.

These take ATF right? any special kind, or just the dex/merc?
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Kevin

1971 300SEL 3.5
1972 280SE 4.5
1968 280S Parts Car
1983 300D (5-spd conversion almost completed!)
1986 Toyota pickup 22R 4-spd
1968 Mustang 302 (soon to be 5-spd)
1981 Euro-spec 300d 4-spd parts car

Sold:
1987 300D (had 415,000 miles when I sold it, now has 462,000 and still driven every day!! Original head)
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2012, 01:14 PM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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What year model? The manuals of the 123 and 124 series have given me high mileage using 10W30 motor oil.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2012, 01:46 PM
ashedd's Avatar
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Redline has given me nothing but trouble... I'm switching to either ATF or 10w30 soon.
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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #8  
Old 02-02-2012, 01:55 PM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
Redline has given me nothing but trouble... I'm switching to either ATF or 10w30 soon.
If you use ATF on a transmission in the eighties era, it can be a risk. There were seal materials used during that time that were compatible with the Dexron/Mercon OF THAT DAY!!!! Dexron/Mercon has gone through serious changes since that time and often will eat the seal materials of that era. 10W30, is a much safer bet. This issue is not nearly as important in transmissions as it is in power steering systems.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2012, 03:43 PM
TheDon's Avatar
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Sounds like the shifter arm is loose. It's a 5mm Allen you need to tighten.

I used penzoil synchromesh in my 4 speed
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:18 PM
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the origins of the parts might be helpful too. Are you using a W123 shifter or a later model? same for rods. do you have correct slave, pressure plate, flywheel? I assume you have all the right parts, but one never knows.
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2012, 08:44 PM
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Location: Seattle
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Thanks for all the help!

I got back under the car today and thoroughly inspected the shifting system. As it turns out, the shift arm for 1st and 2nd gear was being restricted by the car beneath the shifter. All pieces of the trans and shift system came from a euro-spec 240D W123, so I assumed it would all line up properly, but it doesn't. I solved the problem by cutting about 1 square inch of metal from the bottom of the car behind the shifter, which created a new problem. After cutting metal out of the car my shifter now has enough room to get into 1st gear, but the other side of the equation now puts the shift handle well into the heater control area of the dash. I have all the heater/radio/dash stuff removed right now but I don't think I can put it all back in and still be able to shift into 1st gear. I may need to remove the shifter and bed it back an inch or so.

All in all I'm sure I can get it figured out, Thanks for the help.

So it seems the consensus is to use 10w30 for trans oil?
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Kevin

1971 300SEL 3.5
1972 280SE 4.5
1968 280S Parts Car
1983 300D (5-spd conversion almost completed!)
1986 Toyota pickup 22R 4-spd
1968 Mustang 302 (soon to be 5-spd)
1981 Euro-spec 300d 4-spd parts car

Sold:
1987 300D (had 415,000 miles when I sold it, now has 462,000 and still driven every day!! Original head)
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2012, 08:57 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
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You dont want to move the shifter you want to adjust the rods. Either by using the adjusters on them or by cutting them down. Any other method will be a cobble and you will regret it later.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2012, 10:21 AM
JB3 JB3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
You dont want to move the shifter you want to adjust the rods. Either by using the adjusters on them or by cutting them down. Any other method will be a cobble and you will regret it later.
x2.

You are using a euro spec 5-speed out of a 240 and adapting it to a 300D?

The engines are in different places, the euro spec 240 shift rods will not be the right length, you probably need to shorten all of them the exact same length and adjust from there.

The longer 300D engine extends further back in the engine bay, so the transmission will be sitting further back bolted to it, but the shifter hole in the body would be in the same place since its the same chassis.

You should not need to cut a hole in the body itself since that changes shifter placement in relation to the driver position, the dimension change can be done in the rods themselves.

When people swap a 4 speed into a 300D, they usually cut about 4.5 inches out of all 3 shifter rods. Since your euro 5-speed is longer than the 4 speed, you would probably have to remove less, but you probably have to shorten them all still.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2012, 09:04 PM
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I have already shortened the shift rods aprox. 4". I didn't get to work on the car today but will re-examine the adjustment issue on sunday. I should be able to test drive the car then!!!!
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Kevin

1971 300SEL 3.5
1972 280SE 4.5
1968 280S Parts Car
1983 300D (5-spd conversion almost completed!)
1986 Toyota pickup 22R 4-spd
1968 Mustang 302 (soon to be 5-spd)
1981 Euro-spec 300d 4-spd parts car

Sold:
1987 300D (had 415,000 miles when I sold it, now has 462,000 and still driven every day!! Original head)
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I have already shortened the shift rods aprox. 4". I didn't get to work on the car today but will re-examine the adjustment issue on sunday. I should be able to test drive the car then!!!!

4" was likely too much. the 4 inch number commonly heard came from guys putting 240D rods in a 300, 4" difference is the block difference. what you are dealing with is as mentioned in a post above, you have the 4 inch block difference but also the difference in length of the 5 speed to the 4 speed.


any updates? glad to hear it may just be a simple rods issue

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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)
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