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  #1  
Old 02-12-2002, 06:39 PM
r90skirk
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Question Help, diesel acts like starved for fuel

My problem resides with my 82 300TD. This morning and one night last week while driving 60mph she acted like she was running out of fuel. Both times the fuel gauge was at about 1/8 of a tank or just shy of reserve light coming on.

Last week I got her started off the side of the road. It took several tries and when she started she was not firing on all cylinders. Started out down the road on what felt like 4 cylinders and it took a little while but she cleared out and ran on all 5.

Then this morning the same thing happened on the highway, except that I couldn't get her to fire until I put another 3 gallons or so of fuel in her. Then I still had a heck of a time trying to get her going. After getting back on the road, she bogged down several more times on the way to work. I could keep her going by matting the pedal and as the speed came down to 40 or so, dropped her into "S" and brought the rpm's up, this would eventually clear her out and I would be back up to speed again only to have it happen again.

At lunch today I drove to the nearest station that sells premium diesel fuel, filled her up and drove back to the office with the same thing happening only a little less severe. I was wondering whether I had a bad dose of fuel or not.

Tonight I drove to the NAPA store and back (to pick up fuel filters) and she never hesitated once. But, I also have a full tank now.

I read a post about vacuum in the tank, so at lunch during one of these episodes I stopped and remove the fuel filler cap. Continued down the road and the same starving for fuel scenario happened again.

Any Ideas? Thanks.

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  #2  
Old 02-12-2002, 08:52 PM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
You might be looking at a clogged fuel filter or pre-filter.

Also, I had a gasolene vehicle do similar things when I let it stay outside one winter with 1/4 tank of gas. Water condensed inside the tank, and as I got to the bottom of the tank it would hardly run. Upon filling back up it ran fine.

Of course, with a gas tank you can add the alcohol-based treatments. Not sure that's a good idea with diesel. Search my thread on diesel fuel additive label scans (under my ID) and see if anything there looks appropriate to remove water.

Ken300D
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2002, 10:56 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
r90skirk,

Just out of curiosity, what is the temperature where you live (I see you are in Michigan, which can get pretty cold)? If it gets in the teens and you have straight Diesel, you may be getting a little starvation from the paraffin precipitating out and clogging the lines and the filters. A premium Diesel will usually have some kerosene blended in to "winterize" it if you are in a cold climate. You can buy anti-gelling stuff to add yourself if the local Diesel station does not take any special action to deal with this feature of Diesel fuel.

I drove to Colorado to ski in the early 70's with the 220D when it was pretty new. While cruising along through Kansas when it was about 10 degrees Fahrenheit out, the car became hard to keep at highway speeds, and then it slowly felt like it was dying, hardly able to sustain 35 mph. I drove to a truck stop and asked what was up. They told me to keep it running and add a bunch of some canned solvent, which they sold me. I did, and in half an hour the car ran perfectly again. I kept the rest of the can with a rag stuffed in the hole and used it until I got back to the East coast. The can was sized for a 150 gallon tank, so it lasted quite a while and made a bit of a mess in the trunk.

After perusing the manual, there was a section that told you it was ok to add up to 15% gasoline to keep the fuel flowing. It explains the problem and, once aware of the issue, I never had the experience again.

Hope this helps, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2002, 12:48 PM
r90skirk
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I replaced both fuel filters this morning along w/ new 7.5mm fuel line each end of pre-filter, needed rerouting and abit more length, the old ones were too short and had a severe bend in the top hose, anyways I took her out on the road and she seems to be running fine for now. Have put 25 miles on so far. But at the same time I have a near full tank of fuel.

Jim, I havn't added any anti-gel yet this winter and it's been colder prior to these episodes. The temp yestrday was high teens low twenties. I have been adding"redline" additive nearly every time I fill up.
Threw the premium diesel in her yesterday so we'll see what happens.
I'm still wondering if the last batch had water or crud in it.
Thanks Jim and Ken for your input.
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2002, 01:02 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
R90SKIRK
Does your TD have a filter inside the tank? I found the one inside the tank on my 82 SD partially plugged and replaced it. It's a screen which screws into the bottom of the tank. It may be woth checking.
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2002, 01:11 PM
r90skirk
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I had the tank out of the car in December repairing a small leak, inside of tank was amazingly clean as was the fuel screen (if that's what your talking about), no crud or gel or anything in bottom of tank

I repaired tank and replaced fuel sending unit while out.
Thanks for the info though.
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  #7  
Old 02-14-2002, 04:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Powder Springs, Georgia, USA
Posts: 207
Do you still have the old style priming pump ? Maybe it's leaking, sucking air in.
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David McDonald
1981 240D
1985 300D (wrecked)
1985 300TD 365,000 miles
1969 Mustang Fastback
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2002, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
It could be the fuel line that runs under the chassis. I had one that rusted through, a small pin hole, under the rubber grommet that supports the line as it runs along the frame. There was no visible leak after the car sat, the give away was the fuel along the bottom of the frame rail. I cut the line and replaced the section with a rubber hose and clamps.

Tom
82 300 SD
86 300 SDL
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2002, 08:01 PM
r90skirk
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Deltadave,
I do not know the difference between old style primer pump and new. Mine looks as if its original equipment and doesn't feel like it draws that much when pumped.
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2002, 09:07 PM
r90skirk
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I've got the "old style" on both of our cars then. Is there a seal in there that gets worn? If so, is that something that could contribute to my problem even after car is started and running down the road?
Thanks,
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2002, 06:14 PM
r90skirk
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Thanks Bill,
I ordered one on tuesday along with a few other parts; won't get until early next week. My fuel starving problem has been kept at bay since wednesday, but since then I've got fuel leaking from the top of the cast housing that holds the main fuel filter.
I can't tell if it's coming from around the larger bolt that threads into the filter or from the "bleeder" bolt that threads into the three way fitting.
There's an aluminum washer/seal on the bottom side of the 3-way fitting, have you seen those leak if compressed enough/old enough, and is there supposed to be a seal/washer under the head of the large bolt that threads into fuel filter?
I've had both off and looked at them, but cannot tell where the fuel is coming from as it's all over the top of casting.
Also, there's a single port in the side of the larger bolt, should that be lined up with the port to fuel line going out?
And there's 3 ports in the bleeder bolt, should they be lined up with the 3 hoses that are attached to this fitting or doesn't that matter? THANKS,
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  #12  
Old 03-14-2002, 01:29 PM
r90skirk
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problem cured!!

Just thought I would let everyone know how this turned out. After several more episodes of this (acting like starving for fuel) and me changing out filters again, new primer pump etc... without success, I begrudgingly "strapped" car into local Indy and they diagnosed a pinched or restricted pick-up tube in the bottom of the fuel tank. Imagine that! I had not looked back at the tank as I had the tank out back in December for repair and replace sending unit and she had ran fine for a month and a half before first episode.

Anyways, apparently the bottom of tank smacked something again where it had been previously dented (I believe the first time occurred when the rear suspension was sagging) and subsequently choked off the end of the pick-up tube enough to cause me fits under higher rpm's or load situations.

Replaced fuel tank last night and filled her up and she's running beautifully. One of the reasons I throw this out is, this is obviously a good reason to keep maintenance up on the rear leveling suspension (aside from the obvious) as the previous owner did not and this was the result.

Happy Dieseling,
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  #13  
Old 03-14-2002, 01:38 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
Kirk,

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your solution! It is good to broaden the base of our collective experience here, as with cars looking at their 25th or greater birthdays, it is unlikely any of us are really encountering entirely new problems.

Thanks for completing the circle, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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