How long should I have to crank after injector replacement (OM616)? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vstech · #46 07-01-2012, 08:00 PM

lets start over.

what were the symptoms before you changed the injectors?

how long has it been since the fuel filters were changed?

#1 FAILURE is common to the 240, and it's due to the fuel lift pump weakening. you should search here for how to set and test fuel pressure.
the FIRST thing I'd do is get new filters, and fill them with Diesel purge or fresh diesel, then prime the filters with the primer pump, then try the bleed mess again.
I've had IMMENSE problems starting my SD when the clear primary filter was clogged up with buggs...

vstech · #47 07-01-2012, 08:01 PM

heck, I'd start with a "diesel purge" bottle of fuel connected to the lines of the tank in www.dieselgiant.com/injectorcleaning.htm style...

colincoon · #48 07-01-2012, 08:03 PM

Yeah, set up a remote tank and try that. It sounds more like fuel starvation now than injector problems.

funola · #49 07-01-2012, 08:03 PM

Take off the fuel filler cap when it's quiet and listen for a "swoosh". If you get a swoosh, the vent is blocked and that may contribute to difficulty getting fuel to the IP. Leave the cap off and see if you can get the engine to run normal, then clear the tank vent later.

Edit:
Your 240D is not driven regularly it seems. From day/ night temperature differential, moisture condenses at night when the tank cools off, this water accumulates and algae grows and clogs your strainer and tank vent. Try to get it running from a 1/2 gallon soda bottle of fuel. If you have no trouble doing that, you have more work to do to the tank.

My 85 I just bought sat in a garage not driven regularly and I have an algae problem also. The fuel filler cap was full of rust on the inside. Took apart and cleaned the black algae off the inside of the fuel sender today. I have Startron in the tank and it will slowly kill off the algae. I blew through the vent with compressed air a few times already but it is still clogged.

BodhiBenz1987 · #50 07-01-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

It was not running up to the day or so before you changed the injectors?

To sum up the turn of events: Roughly six weeks ago I attempted to do a compression test. The car started, ran and drove that day; I took it around the neighborhood to get it to operating temp for the test. It shook/rocked at idle with varying severity but never to the point it would cut out on me. It had been doing that for a while, hence the exploration. It also got occasional pinging at throttle, but again nothing that seemed to affect the engine's performance. For whatever it's worth, this car sat all winter while I chased down coolant leaks and learned my usual slow way about the cooling system. Once I finished that it started fine, and I drove it a little bit without any major problems (same iffy idle and occasional pinging), then decided to figure out why the idle was so choppy. As mentioned, when I went to do the compression test, my tester wouldn't work. But with the injectors out I noticed the nozzles looked pretty awful, so I decided to pursue replacing them. I for the life of me can't remember unhooking anything other than the injectors and hard lines, but maybe I jostled something old and brittle and cracked it? In short: Yes, it ran and stayed running the last time it had the old injectors in it, before any of the fuel lines had been disturbed.

BodhiBenz1987 · #51 07-01-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

heck, I'd start with a "diesel purge" bottle of fuel connected to the lines of the tank in Diesel Purge Mercedes diesel maintenance tips style...

This might be a good idea. I probably should have done it when I bought the car. Should I just try to rev the engine like I did before during this procedure? I guess if the problem is fuel contamination, it will run better when connected to the bottle.

BodhiBenz1987 · #52 07-01-2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

#1 FAILURE is common to the 240, and it's due to the fuel lift pump weakening. you should search here for how to set and test fuel pressure.
the FIRST thing I'd do is get new filters, and fill them with Diesel purge or fresh diesel, then prime the filters with the primer pump, then try the bleed mess again.
I've had IMMENSE problems starting my SD when the clear primary filter was clogged up with buggs...

When you say #1 failure, do you mean within the IP? I did get fuel there eventually, but it took longer than the others for sure. I'll do a search on that for evening reading material (it beats Sunday night TV).

colincoon · #53 07-01-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

This might be a good idea. I probably should have done it when I bought the car. Should I just try to rev the engine like I did before during this procedure? I guess if the problem is fuel contamination, it will run better when connected to the bottle.

While a diesel purge isn't a bad idea, he's telling you to use the remote "tank" like you would with a diesel purge, just with diesel now.

I really think you should try this first before doing anything else. Grab a 2ltr soda bottle, or something of equivalent size, and put in some fresh diesel. Cut two holes in it, one for supply and one for return, and run fuel line in to it and hook it up to your car. Prime and attempt to start it like you would normally.

Sitting for 6 weeks is plenty of time for junk to build up and cause issues.

BodhiBenz1987 · #54 07-01-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colincoon

While a diesel purge isn't a bad idea, he's telling you to use the remote "tank" like you would with a diesel purge, just with diesel now.

I really think you should try this first before doing anything else. Grab a 2ltr soda bottle, or something of equivalent size, and put in some fresh diesel. Cut two holes in it, one for supply and one for return, and run fuel line in to it and hook it up to your car. Prime and attempt to start it like you would normally.

Sitting for 6 weeks is plenty of time for junk to build up and cause issues.

OK, that makes sense. I'll follow dieselgiant's instructions, but substitute normal fresh diesel in the bottle.

layback40 · #55 07-01-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

OK, that makes sense. I'll follow dieselgiant's instructions, but substitute normal fresh diesel in the bottle.

Its great to see you making progress !!

Fresh diesel is always a help.

For a bottle, I have used an orange juice container, they are clear so you can see the diesel in it. The opening is big enough to put the 2 flexible hoses (cigar & supply to primary filter) in.

An extra claim to fame you now have is you got BC & I to agree on something !

Keep the throttle to the floor !!

If you drain the tank & find black gunk in the strainer, it would be fair to say the problem is found.
The tank vent is probably blocked, they always get that way. Until you have it sorted, leave the fill cap off.
A good nights sleep always diminishes mechanical problems with a car !!

vstech · #56 07-02-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

When you say #1 failure, do you mean within the IP? I did get fuel there eventually, but it took longer than the others for sure. I'll do a search on that for evening reading material (it beats Sunday night TV).

no, I mean cylinder #1 on the engine is known to fail on the 240's due to low fuel pressure to the IP...

splunge · #57 07-03-2012, 03:06 AM

In a situation such as this, where algae fuel contamination is suspected, would it help to try to use a siphon hose (e.g. a cheapie shaker siphon) to pull a fuel sample from the bottom of the tank? Or is the algae too viscous or some such to be picked up properly?

Is this siphon method an acceptable approach to draining the tank, if need be? What is the canonical method?

I've been running Racor biocide and Stanadyne Performance Formula in my 240, and have been wondering whether the demulsification has over time created a pool of water in the tank (with any algae suppressed by Racor). Haven't yet tried to poke a siphon in there to try to find out.

funola · #58 07-03-2012, 07:51 AM

Take out the fuel sender, easier then siphoning or draining the tank. if you see black on the aluminum fuel sender, you have algae.

BodhiBenz1987 · #59 07-03-2012, 08:20 PM

I set up a bottle with fresh diesel in it, changed both filters (filled spin on with fresh diesel), primed ... no start ... even with pedal down, I can't even get a little try out of it. There is some reason I can't get air out of the system, and I really don't understand it. Maybe my primer pump is broken (already). I continually get air bubbles in the clear fuel hose between the spin on filter and IP. No matter how much I pump, more bubbles appear, and they don't always come out of the loosened bolt on the spin-on filter (plenty of diesel does though ... there is just diesel everywhere in my garage).
I used the same set-up as the dieselgiant tutorial, only with diesel instead of DieselPurge. Fuel does drip out of the return hose, when I prime or when I crank. But it's not always coming out of the fuel lines on the injectors.
Taking a break ... the diesel smell is making me sick.

layback40 · #60 07-03-2012, 10:15 PM

Oh Dear !!
Looks like you have a leak of air into the fuel.
Is the little primary filter part of your set up? They can have leaks around the hose fittings.
The most likely place air will be getting in is on the vacuum side of the primer pump. Is the hose good?
Are you getting a good stream of fuel out the return line when you pump the primer?

I had an annoying air leak on my diesel jeep. It has a similar fuel system. I ended up using a can of spray glue & making a mess spraying every connection 1 at a time & testing until I found the air leak.
Probably if I was as frustrated as you must be by now, I would put a small electric fuel pump in the line from the bottle & set it going for a while circulating fuel under pressure until every bit of air was gone. But thats just me!
I prime my 617 by attaching an air hose to the return line to the tank & lightly pressurizing the tank. It has the old style primer pump & it leaks & so destroys engine mounts & I have trouble getting it to seal after priming. You can hear the air exiting the tank vent. The return line out of the filter housing I have going to a bottle. When there are no more bubbles of air, I quickly reconnect the return line to how it should be. It takes some skill as if you are not quick, the diesel under pressure in the tank comes back up the return line & gives you a face full of diesel. Dont ask how I know !!

What happened with the WD40?

Sorry for asking so many questions, its just my way of making suggestions (the answers).