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The New Project-- The Sleeper
I ended up buying Tom's car. Met him around 515'ish last night. The battery did wear down but I was hoping it was just wore down because of the flashers. More on this. Then, asked about opening the trunk to put the spare away. Nope, she's sealed shut. So, FIRST REQUEST OUT THERE:
1. How can one open the trunk ? The locked was drilled out but it's not budging. I really need to get into the trunk. PLEASE any ideas. I really want to see the RUST ! LOL. 2. After driving about 80+ miles I realized that my fuel gauage did not budge a bit. I called Tom and, yes, it does not work. The was the 2nd "suprise". There's more. After driving about another 5 miles, I got fuel and I was super lucky because I had about 1 gallon left. I would have been very cranky running out of fuel at night in the rain and wind and cold in a strange area. 3. I drove the old girl to Lexington, KY for the night. About 20 minutes out, she almost overheated. The needle went a hair over the 100C point. 4. Got to the hotel in Lexington, and silly me I turned off the car while I went inside. Got a nice cheap room at Hotel Six for $45 bucks, BUT when I went outside to start her up and to go to the room, NO BATTERY. Battery is DEAD. So, this is the next major project tomorrow. Got a flash light to check out things under the hood while jumping the car. Checked the oil. It was OK -- more on this. Injector lines are leaking like crazy. 5. Got a jump the next morning and drove another 100 or so miles and the old girl got hotter ... in between the 100C and 120C marks. Got nervious. Pulled over but I could not shut her off because no battery. I squeezed the upper radiator hose hoping it was air or something along those lines. She cooled down. 6. Drove to the NC state line, and same deal, except she hit 120C. I pulled over and turned it off at the gas station. I did not care at that point. Filled it up again since I had no idea how much fuel was in it. After that, I could figure it out a little, but certainly enough to get me home. Checked the oil, and guess what, about 2 quarts low. Poop. Bought 2 quarts of oil at gas station prices. What a rip off. What's up with that. Waited about 15 minutes and got a jump and took off. No problems with the coolant the rest of the way home. Wait, there's more to the journey. 7. Checked the oil when I got home. It was off about another quart. No leaks, so I am hoping it was sticking rings or some sort of weird blowby but 3 quarts in 500+ miles sounds like a lot. 8. Anticipated about 10 hours of driving. Nope, more like 13. What's up with that ... After you hit 50'ish, you got a decent shimmy and shake and hit 65-70 it got violent. I am hoping it is just the tires and not the front end. Very rough calculations on fuel usage and MPG. Got around 29 MPG. Hoping some mainteance will improve this. 9. Just finished pressure washing the car to clean off a bunch of leaves, pine needles, and just dirt ! Blasted the engine too. Got underneath the car and what a RUSTY project I got. LOL. Not sure the old girl can be saved. The passanger side is toast and the driver's is right behind it. The trunk area from underneath is super toast. I got PERFECT Floor pans but not sure I want to waste them on this project. 10. The real reason I bought the car was the Getrag 717.400. Paid dearly for it, but I got it. Not sure about the engine at this point. Body is really, really rougth inside and out. I am going to take it slow. Tomorrow is another day. Tomorrow's projects are: 1. Battery 2. Return lines 3. Trunk Entry 4. Doors -- Locks do not work I also found out. 5. Vacuum and clean the windows and pressure wash it again. |
opening the trunks on the w123's without a key is easy. Use a 4x4 post or some sort of log and put something soft over the thumping end. Have a friend pull up on the trunk while you thump the area to the left or right of the license plate or just center if there is no plate. The shock should be enough to pop the trunk. Don't go to crazy and dent the sheet metal.
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OK ... Run that by me again ..
I take 4x4 or log, put a rag or something rubber or "soft" on the end, and "thump" where the license plate is, or to the left or right of the plate while someone pulls up on it ? I only have one screw holding the plate on because even the threaded inserts that hold the plate are messed up. I can remove the plate very easy. That is it ? |
Its been a while since we had her on a long sustained run on highway. I would suggest checking the fan belt, a loose belt would explain the charging problem and heat problem. I did check the coolant and oil levels prior to leaving. The oil showed between the add and full mark. i suppose it may have had some condensation in there.
That battery should be good. its only a year and a half old based on the testimony of the PO. oh yeah, did i mention it has the 23 gallon turbo diesel tank? |
Some Progress Today
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Many Thanks to "The Don" !!
I did a modified "Thumper" After a few decents shots and no luck, I went ahead and jammed a big flat head screw driver into the hole that Tom drilled. I gave it a few good raps with the hammer and it popped right open ! 5 bolts later, and the entire lock mechanism is out ! I got about 15 minutes total in that operation and another 15 to get a lock into the trunk tomorrow. Not horrible. Spent most of the day looking for the key for the new lock component and painting the shutters on the house. In the background you can see where some shutters are off and others not. Pressure washed the engine bay and car and the trunk. Trunk was loaded with boards, junk, and a sway bar from something. Heavy coating of tar stuff to hide some very heavy duty rust. I can say after checking it out very carefully today, in-between painting shutters and pressure washing the porch, the car and looking for the key, this is a rust bucket. Poop. The belts are fine. They are nice and firm. So, no belt slippage. Coolant is fine also. Did not drive it today so not sure about the overheating issue but it has nothing to do with coolant levels or the belts. Took the battery to the Autozone and the guy checked it on a meter of some sorts. The battery is shot. Nowhere near 12 volts. After driving it 13 hours, it should have held a charge. So, got a new battery. Poop. Tomorrow, installing new lock in the trunk if I can find the key. Hitting the yard for a fuel sender since that needs to be fixed ASAP. And, major interior cleaning, vacuuming, and cleaning the windows. Then, I will start tackling some long needed maintenance. I am also going to do a thorough pressure check on the engine since I think I am burning / losing oil somehow. I lost 3 quarts in about 500 miles. I confirmed there are no oil leaks in the engine that I could see. So, it has to be going somewhere. If the compression is down, then I guess the engine rebuild that Tom got was not so hot since after 65K miles, that engine should be in super shape and not blowing oil. Another possible poop. |
A better picture
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Here's the picture again.
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Fuel sending unit can be cleaned. Cleaned mine in like 15 minutes, all that you need to do is take a blade and VERY carefully clean the crud off of the tiny wires in the sending unit.
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It's not been using oil so a change to new oil should take care of that. The water pump was probably new when the motor was done so it could be due. I am pretty sure we have not changed it since. The radiator looks very good. I don't think I replaced it but it does not look 30 years old.
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WTB: Need Throttle Linkage
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Here's a picture of the current throttle linkage. I have a WTB throttle linkage posted in the WTB/FS Section. You can see 30 minutes of pressure washing.
Does anyone know if the throttle linkage from a turbo engine is the same, with MW pump ??? |
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Pull the thermostat out completely and retest.... |
Howdy,
Anyone with a 300D NA "M" Pump accelerator linkage set-up out there ? Can someone just post a picture to let me know what it is supposed to look like ???? PLEASE ! My goal is to only drive it sporadically right now because too many mechanical issues right now. I think the 675 journey home was solely achieved with my guardian angel watching over me. Since I got a 3" BeCool Radiator and I am going with the EWP, I think I will just milk it until I can upgrade / properly fix the coolant system. I drove it to work today and it spiked again to a hair over 100C, so I have concluded that the cooling system is just bad. Another problem in a super long list of problems. Even the coveted Getrag 717.400 five speed has a problem with 2nd gear, but I am very hopeful that is something easy to remedy since if that proves itself to be a problem, then I just purchased a 3,500 pound paperweight as a super high premium per pound. |
I'll be looking for it around town!
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I forgot --
Engine is OM617.912 NA from 1984 300D Euro. Body platform is the W123 Chassis. |
Spend the $12 a year get the Euro version of the epc; EPC-net Online that will help immensely.
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Does it use a fan clutch? if so, check it. I found I have a bad 603 fan clutch ......and two bad spares!
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I think that may be the best $12 bucks I spent in while ... but the old girl may not be worth it since I will decide shortly if she's even worth it to keep it. If the compressoin test indicates a dog, I will be stripping out the transmission and trying to part out the few parts which may be able to be sold and off to be made soup cans.... poop.
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I think this one is a clutch fan. I will be checking it out shortly. Changing the oil and filter within 3 hours. It was suggested that changing the oil will stop the massive oil hemorage from within and something about condensation.
Also, got my heat shields so I will be checking the compression today. I have my fingers crossed that I will be hitting around 350 psi and no real variance between the cylinders. The engine is supposed to have only 65K on it so it should be close to factory fresh. BTW -- What should be the PSI for the NA Engine - OM617.912 ? |
I stand corrected about the 617, I have experience with the 616 and I assumed the 617 was the same...
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normal 348 to 435 psi min 217 psi max variance 43 psi between injectors test with coolant at 176 F With fuel shutoff lever engaged, blow soot out by cranking motor before testing from injector or glow plug holes. Then crank for 8 revolutions (fuel shut off lever engaged) for reading. |
A little maintenance
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Got to tackle some immediate maintenance today. A lot to follow. Oil and filter, adjust the parking brakes, disassembly and reassembly of fuel sending unit and tried to run a compression test. So, here are some pictures.
1. Oil change and filter -- Success :) Let's see if that stops the internal oil hemmorage 2. Fuel Sending Unit -- Success :) Got around a half a tank of fuel. Big relief having a functional fuel gauge ... even if I did drive 675 miles without one. LOL. 3. Adjust Parking Brakes -- No bueno ... Must not have adjusted the star wheel enough. Followed FSM and nada. :mad: Looks like the rubber hose is just about rotten thru and I really think I need all new brakes accross the board, rotors, calipers, hoses, pads, et cet since what I got is not so hot right now. 4. Compression Test -- Got the panic call from the house to come home ... Got below 70 apparently and the a dreaded palmetto bug entered the house. By the time I got home, it was gone. I think it was a ruse ... LOL. BUT, number one cylinder boasted a whopping 305 psi. So, not sure if that has anything to do with the oil loss. I can say that my prior MB W123.133 OM671.952 (and only MB) had much better compression even with 327K +++ miles (odometer did not work for about 2 years) and I ran WVO almost the entire 4 years. I am going to do all 5 cylinders this weekend and take some pictures of the high reading and low reading. Any ideas out there ?? I really thought a rebuilt engine with just 65K on it would have much highter numbers. :confused: |
The old girl has some floor pan rust
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Got her on the lift while doing the maintenance and you can see that the entire bottom of the car, from head to toe is just rotten out. A total rust bucket.:( Not sure if it is really safe to drive since it looks like the entire perimeter is rotten, and the rot is from where one's heel would be back to the rear suspension. The arches are rotten as well as where the bumper is. Pretty sad shape
Anyone out there have any luck successfully battling this ? |
It's hard to tell from the pictures. It looks to me that the undercoating is peeling off. Not sure how bad the metal is rusted.
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I will take some live action photos from inside the car ... one can see pavement. Unfortunately, it is not just the undercoating is peeling. That rust is thru and thru. Poop.
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Hey, it can be a Zero Emissions Vehicle! Just lay off the spicy food.
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OK smarty pants ... LOL. Any luck on successfully battling this ?
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It does look like some pretty substantial rust. A full floor pan replacement looks to be in order, or organ transplant like you were originally planning.
Third option is to win the powerball and send it to the classic center. |
Hello
I can see that Mark is in full blown buyers remorse mode now.
I feel a need to say a few things now about all this: If you read my ad I disclosed the following: The weak action on second gear. The non reliable fuel guage. Rust in the floor. I suggested it would be an excellent organ donor to a rust free shell. I did not sugar coat it, mentioning several times it looked good at 15' It had very good Michelin tires on the original 5.5 aluminum rims and a three month old 7 year battery. The seats were pretty good too, and the dash very good. It also has had the front end parts rebuilt and drives and steers like new with no play even in the steering on a chassis with 350K miles or so on it. It also has the five speed aluminum case tranny and a 307 diff. It also has the 23 gallon fuel tank. I was asking $3250. Mark offered me $2000. He told me he was really only interested in the five speed tranny so we agreed that if I took out the seats but provided one for him to drive home with, put in a "junk" battery (Mark's word) and gave him wheels with tires good enough to get home on he would give me the $2000 plus a surplus 300D flywheel he had. Fair enough. We agreed to a date for him to come and get the car, at that time it was a month or so in the future. He had a free flight coming so booked it into Indianapolis international. About a week before his pickup time I began removing the seats, etc. In the process of removing the seats when pulling up the carpets I found that the floor rot had gotten into the rockers and was worse in the floor than it appeared from the exterior. When changing the tires I found that the rf jack point was soft and the rocker near there as well. I immediately emailed Mark and told him the places were worse than I had disclosed earlier. He asked if the car was a rustbucket and I said he would have to decide that for himself. He asked if it looked like he could weld in new floor pans. I said it would not be worth it and if he now wanted to drive it he would be better off to use sheet metal, screws and roofing cement. I was unhappy with the fact that I had told him earlier that the rockers and jack points were solid so without him asking I included a very nice Michelin spare on a good bundt with half tread, a jack, and decided to bring the car to Indianapolis (about 80 miles from my house) so he could save a good bit of driving time and fuel. I installed the battery that had come in Pancakes from Joe which I understood to be about 1.5 years old. I had put it on the charger before leaving and it had started the car up at least twice before leaving my house. I put the four ways on for the trip south and let them run until we got to the unhook point. I also supplied four matching Michelin Harmony tires on straight bundts with half tread. The car had not exhibited any charging shortcomings in my ownership. When I arrived at the airport Mark came over and we said hello. Before moving from that spot I asked him if he wanted to drive the car. He said no. He had ample time to examine the rockers and floor and I assumed he did so. We drove to a place where we had room to unhook the car from the tow bar etc. When we tried to start it the battery was dead. So we pulled it to start it. it started right up and idled while we unhooked the sway and reinstalled the bumper. At any point up to now Mark could have backed out of the deal and I would have refunded his money. From this point I have no first hand knowledge of what happened. The car never overheated for me. That is not to say the water pump may need replacing. They don't last forever. I never found it to use oil but it was not at the full mark when i checked so some condensation may have been there and burned off. The oil had 5000 miles on it. This I also disclosed to Mark and offered to change it for him before the exchange and he declined. The car has always started right up instantaniously if all the glows work and it idles smoothly so I am confident there was nothing wrong with the motor mechanically at the time of sale. Running it up to 120 degrees C is not good though so damage is possible from that. The brakes worked fine, pulling the car down fast and straight and the parking brake worked perfectly too. I am sorry Mark is having remorse now but I believe I disclosed everything that was wrong with the car. It appears his decision to try to drive it instead of using it for parts has caused him to create standards of condition that were never originally contemplated. I am confident that the motor was excellent when I turned the car over to him. I wish him only the best with the car. |
Wow,
Take it easy old timer. Buyer's remorse ? Sort of, but it's a challange. Did I buy a rust bucket. Yes. Did I buy a car that was not safe to drive. Yes. Did I make it home OK ? Yes. Will the old girl be re-born ? Yes. Did I overpay ? Hmmmm ... BTW -- did you really think I was just going to jump back onto the plane and go home. I was already fully committed after investing $475 in airfare, a day's vacation, and prepaying the purchase price, so it was never really viable or practical to just zip back home. It is what it is. If life gives you lemons, make lemonaide. I have a forum with a bunch of great guys and girls who will help me get the old girl up and running like a champ. Take it easy Tom. I am pointing out the exact nature of the car, so if you perceive that your disclosures match what the pictures show, then no problems. You're the judge, not me. More maintenance to come on Thursday. Driving the Olds right now. Mark |
Before doing anything else, I'd swap out the fan belt. It's overheating and not charging. Both those things can be caused by a slipping belt. I've had a belt that was tight and appeared good but was slipping and I couldn't tell. Once I put on a new belt the problems went away. There's probably a single belt on that motor I think.
One relevant piece of advice: always buy a round trip ticket with a return flight the day following viewing the car when purchasing a vehicle at a distance. It takes the pressure off the purchase. I learned this the hard way. |
Always buy a round trip ticket ... It takes the pressure off the purchase. I learned this the hard way.
Me too.... LOL. the old girl is sitting right now. Doing the injectors, adjusting the valves, new return lines, brakes, and balancing the tires since she's not really safe to drive. Plus, I REALLY NEED TO TRACK DOWN THE THROTTLE LINKAGE and the steel cable deal. Anyone have one for sale out there ??? I got a lead on NEW, but I would rather buy used ! |
A fan belt for a 240 is needed as the 300na is the same. The 300 turbo belt is slightly narrower , using two belts and the narrower 300 turbo belt will slip on this 300 na car. Because the 300na was not offered here if you look it up in the book you will see what is needed for the 300 turbo. I was pretty sure it had the wider belt, but I could be wrong about it.
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Sheet metal and rivets, use it as a test bench. Drive it until it's gone.
Think of it this way, you paid: $1,000 for a 5spd $500 for a 617NA $500 for a parts car |
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Happy Halloween -- & some light maintenance
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Happy Halloween everyone !
Got home before it got dark and handing out candy, so I figured I would tackle a few things which annoyed me. 1. New wiper blades. Had these left over from when my car got totaled last year. These were super nice ones. 2. Washed the windshield and hit it with the RainX 3. Replaced the washer resevoir pump deal AND discovered that the hose was being pinched in-between the hood hinge. I get a nice blast now ! 4. Disabled what remained of the EGR. Hunting the yards / forums for a non-EGR manifold. And, cleaned up the vacuum tubing set-up with a nice 3-way vs. the 5-way and extension which had screws blocking off the various ports. 5. Got the answer to my other post about the correct fluid for the trans. That's some work I am planning tomorrow evening. |
MUCH NEEDED MAINTENANCE
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I went ahead and did some long needed maintenance.
I changed the differential oil. It came out like water. Not a great sign.:confused: I changed the trans fluid twice. I put in some mediocre stuff. MANY THANKS for all the posts I got to my thread on Transmission Gurus. :) The old came out like used gas engine oil, blackish but no burnt smell. I flushed it with Dexron. Drove about 1-2 miles and let it drain. It came out not perfectly pink, but close enough. Then, I put in the really good stuff. I got a super deal at Autozone at $5 bucks a quart and I got a $5 coupon. So, not so bad. :) I think I will need to re-torque the drain bolt and fill plug since I just tightened till it felt it was going on too tight. The trans drives MUCH BETTER ! :) No question about it. However, I still got the grind, but instead of 2-5 miles per hour to shift or grind, I can now go about 5-7 miles per hour. Overall, very happy with the trans fluid flush and refill. But, there is something up mechanically with 3rd shifting to 2nd. I was going to brag about my leak free engine. Not. :( Got a nice drip now going on at the front of the oil pan. There's some sore of weird bar with the engine shock absorbers blocking some of the pan, so not sure how easy it is going to be to replace the pan gasket. Normally a 45 minute job, but now who nows. Also, just realize no back up lights. Need to chase that problem down. now. This weekend I am popping in the Elsbett Injectors, adjusting the valves, and new valve cover gasket. Then, I am putting in my mechanical steering box. The box now (power) does not leak and it is in decent shape. I have that up for sale (the entire PS system), so I can vouch for it being in good shape. Same with front window regulator. They are the only 2 things right now without any issues. Knock on wood. Hopefully, I can get the trunk lock installed, but I need to find my key, but it does not really matter a bunch since I cannot lock the front doors yet because the inside door handles are broken and that is somehow stopping the key from working. I think I located the spot where my spare thermostat is hiding in my clutter so that may be a quicky this weekend as well since after I get the throttle linkage fixed, I will be able to drive the car around without a lot of worry. Again, thanks for the posts and info !!!! |
opps double picture
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Pic from front
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Have you checked the voltage at the battery to figure out what was happening with the dead battery?
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The system is charging OK. It was the battery. The battery was nothing more than a chunk of lead. It was junk. I took it to Autozone and they hooked it up to a meter and it was like 10V (I think ... could have been lower) instead of 12V+. I drove the car 13 hours so it should have been charged anyway. I had to buy a new battery and it works fine now.
As for the back up lights, I will check to see if the car has bulbs. First step. If it has bulbs, then I need to check to see if they are burned out. I do have a set of wires on both sides of the trans just dangling so not sure what they are. I will remember my digital camera to take better pictures. Right now the bigger issues are the overheating, the lack of a throttle linkage, lack of emergency brakes, and no locks. I drove it today to do the maintenance. Once I get the major mechanical and safety issues tackled, then I can focus on the fine tuning. Also, the old girl needs an exhaust sytem. The header pipe is totally rotten and partially broke off. |
Not the smartest thing, but I could not help myself
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Drove the old girl this AM, which was not the smartest thing since I got to get a few things under control first, but I could not help myself. Just love the old diesels. :) Had the tires re-balanced last evening on top of some other maintenance, e.g., tranny flush and refill and differntial fluid change, and got about 50% of the shimmy and shake out of the front end. 3 out of 4 were out of balance. I am thinking the hubs need to be rebuilt as well plus most of the rubber boots on the joings look beat. One thing at a time:cool:
Taking my lunch break in the parking lot to try to adjust the rear brakes again. 3x's a charm I hope. And, hoping an ever so slight turn on the hex's on the oil pan will stop the leak I developed a few days ago. |
Time for more maintenance
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In between painting shutters, and watching paint dry, I figured I would do a quicky valve adjustment job, valve cover gasket, and pop in some nicely done injectors with Elsbett Nozzles. Big mistake. I realized while pulling off the valve cover, the PO used silcon caulk to seal the old girl up. That crap was everywhere, inside and out. So, lesson one: NEVER, NEVER USE SILCON CAULK SEALER ON THE VALVE COVER GASKET. It will get INSIDE your engine. I pulled off bits and pieces of that crap. That took almost an hour alone.
So, after loosing the sun since it was no longer a 1-1 1/2 hour job, I invested some time on my newly bought Horrible Frieght 6" Buffer and I buffed the Valve Cover. It got pretty shinny for my first time. Learned a lot about buffing so the next time I adjust the valves, I will make it look like a mirror. Then, pulling the injectors was fun too. The return lines literally just poped off. No tugging like normal -- they just flipped right off but that explains the heavy weeping. I discovered that 2 of the heat shields were put in wrong. They look like they rotted away also. So, I went ahead and install new heat shields correctly, then Rebuilt Injectors with Elsbett Nozzles and some new return line. The old injectors peed almost as much as they popped. The injectors were in very sad shape. :(Also, I had to take out the "throttle linkage" which also had me concerned since that thing is a piece of work ! LOL :eek: I slapped the old girl back together and off we went like crazy. 100% improved performance. I can tell the old girl has much more muscle and responsiveness, but 2 major problems: She still overheats and although the valve cover very slight oil leak is gone, the oil pan leaves a hand sized dropping whereever I park it. So, that is the next major project ! |
And the Overheating Riddle is Solved
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So, realizing that I had about 2 good hours to work on the old girl on Sunday, I made the most of it. I determined that no way is the belt "slipping" so I found one of my stashed thermostats. A Behr 80C -- a nice little gem. I tried removing the old one but snapped 2 bolts. They were frozen in there good. I then realized that the gasket fossilized, so who knows how old that deal is. BUT, I got the snapped bolts out and installed the new thermostat. GUESS WHAT -- No more overheating ... at least yet. :D The lower radiator hose is about ready to go. Rotten at the bottom, but I am OK with that until it explodes since I do not want to invest any money on the cooling system now when I am working on converting to EWP. However, she really does drive nice now.
So, just celebrated my first week with "The Sleeper" and 1. I drained, flushed, and refilled the tranny 2. drained and refilled differential. 3. Oil and oil filter change 4. Adjust the Valves and VC Gasket 5. New Injectors with Heat Shields. 6. New Thermostat and gasket with new bolts 7. Adjusted rear parking brakes although they are basically shot As for things fixed, here's a partial list 1. Fuel Sending Unit 2. Washer Fluid Resevoir and pump 3. Trunk opened but no new lock yet Things that must get done this week: 1. New Oil Pan and Gasket. Need to figure out how to save or capture my new oil since that costs more than a new oil pan and gasket. That is sad ... 2. Exhaust. Header pipe is half way busted right now. I got a new header pipe and new manifold gasket. I got some serious manifold leaks also. 3. Tracking down any more leaks since I am finding them here and there. 4. Finding my key to the trunk lock and fixing the front door locks so I can lock the doors. MODS which I missed out this weekend because of the extra work involved in Maintenance 1. Getting rid of the Power Steering and putting in the mechanical box 2. Getting rid of the non functioning A/C system. I won't need it until March so I got time to rebuild it correctly. 3. Installing my 150 AMP Altenator 4. Relocating my new battery to the trunk 5. Installing my WVO system -- way over engineered but I like it. :D Right now, she's doing ok and coming back slowly. |
I didn't put silicone in there. My indie must have.
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I didnt think you would have ! That stuff was a royal PITA to get out, but I got it. The VC actually shines like a really old mirror. I kind of like the look. Those injectors were TOAST ! LOL. I dont think you would recognize the performance right now. Very peppy !
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What part of this car is a "sleeper"? Just wondering...
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