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-   -   OM606 Cam Timing Jumped 20 Degrees (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/333278-om606-cam-timing-jumped-20-degrees.html)

fdanielson 01-13-2013 06:41 PM

OM606 Cam Timing Jumped 20 Degrees
 
On my way home form vacation last week I was driving down I95 and my daughter mentioned the engine in the '95 E300 sounded loud.

Shortly afterwards I pulled off on exit and it sounded really loud and diesel-ly, link a cold semi truck.

The idle was very rough, black and Smokey and it was a pain to start.
We drove the next 300 miles home and after looking for all the usual things like clogged filters, air leaks, stuck egr valve, or a blocked exhaust.
I was at the end of my rope as to why it started doing this all of a sudden.

Just for kicks I pulled the valve cover (and noticed the previous owner had left me a few broken glow plugs, ouch) and checked the cam timing.
To my amazement it was at 20 degrees before top dead center.
I triple checked it to make sure and looked for reasons why this could have happened.
The chain is not slack and there are no loose or broken components that I can find. If there was I'm sure there would have been a catastrophic failure during the drive home.

So it is easy enough to unbolt the timing gear from the cam and re-set the timing but without understanding what happened I don't know if it will happen again.

Does anyone have a clue?
Maybe this has happened to someone else?

kerry 01-13-2013 06:57 PM

How long have you owned it? Maybe somebody installed a new chain with a link off.

fdanielson 01-13-2013 08:48 PM

I've put a little over 30 thousand miles on the car sine I've owned it and this just started maybe 350 miles ago.

TheDon 01-13-2013 10:13 PM

It jumped time by 20 degrees and you haven't damaged anything... jeeze!

Diesel911 01-13-2013 10:25 PM

I don't know the details but I believe your Camshaft Gear is not attached in the conventional manner as the 617 Engines are.

TheDon 01-13-2013 10:28 PM

http://www.peachparts.com/diy/om606t...stretch/01.jpg

Looks a little different....

fdanielson 01-13-2013 10:35 PM

Remove tensioner, unbolt the cam sprocket, rotate engine forward to TDC, move cam sprocket however many teeth it takes to line up, replace cam sprocket, replace tensioner, check IP timing. If I counted correctly the sprocket has 36 teeth which means a one tooth jump is 10 cam degrees and 20 crank degrees. I'm guessing that maybe the tensioner is weak or one of the check balls got stuck and it depressuized temporarily which allowed the timing chain to jump.

Ozarkdude 01-13-2013 10:35 PM

It would be wise to pull the chain cover and completely overhaul the system. You just dodged a a really large bullet.

qwerty 01-14-2013 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozarkdude (Post 3083239)
It would be wise to pull the chain cover...

Really?

Zulfiqar 01-14-2013 11:29 AM

The pointer plate on the OM606 is not like the old engines, its a moveable part, if someone took off the waterpump and removed it without marking its placement relative to the crank pulley it will never show correct engine timing.

I doubt the engine will actually run with 20 degrees off timing, the pistons will collide with the valves.

fdanielson 01-14-2013 02:58 PM

The water pump was replaced by the previous owner. I don't know how adjustable the timing pointer is and would only expect it to go a few degrees in either direction. After work today I'm going to check the IP timing and see if it shows the same offset the cam timing does.

The Gears 01-14-2013 03:31 PM

The same exact thing happened to my 74 240D.
The problem. The key in the governor shaft had plowed the key-way almost half way around the shaft. I remover the shaft and had a machine shop cut a new key-way 180deg from the original. Never could find out what had placed such a tremendous force on the shaft. The difference in timing came on slowly over a few weeks,not all at once. After pulling the rad the job was fairly easy.

fdanielson 01-14-2013 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar (Post 3083457)
The pointer plate on the OM606 is not like the old engines, its a moveable part, if someone took off the waterpump and removed it without marking its placement relative to the crank pulley it will never show correct engine timing.

I doubt the engine will actually run with 20 degrees off timing, the pistons will collide with the valves.

I measured the injection pump timing and it is off by the same 20 degrees. Since the timing chain and guide rails show no signs of malfunction and it didn't self destruct while I was driving I am going to guess that the goober that replaced the water pump did not install the pointer correctly. So I'm going to button it all back up and run lift pump pressure and compression tests to see what I can see.

KarTek 01-14-2013 10:56 PM

I have made the mistake of looking at cam timing based on the wrong part of the pointer near the balancer. Are you using the blade part as your point of reference?

fdanielson 01-14-2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek (Post 3083909)
I have made the mistake of looking at cam timing based on the wrong part of the pointer near the balancer. Are you using the blade part as your point of reference?

Yes I am, the part that you cn hardly see because the belt tensioner is in the way.

kerry 01-14-2013 11:53 PM

Why the sudden poor running of the engine?

engatwork 01-15-2013 06:35 AM

That is what I'm sitting here wondering.

How many miles are on the car?

Air&Road 01-15-2013 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 3083213)
It jumped time by 20 degrees and you haven't damaged anything... jeeze!


That was my thought. Time for the OP to buy a lottery ticket.

OP. Don't simply reset the cam timing without checking and dealing with the tensioner. It should be a ratcheting tensioner and will have to be reset.

fdanielson 01-15-2013 09:19 PM

Recap- I have no idea why it all of a sudden started running poorly. While checking various things I decided to check the timing chain and it looks just fine, has tension, no broken or flapping parts. The timing showed 20 degrees off which shocked me because it ran afterwards, albeit poorly. At the suggestion of another poster that the timing pointer may just be wrong I checked the IP timing and found it was also offset by the same 20 degrees. So now I'm supposing the timing didn't jump at all and there is some other explanation for the sudden change in operation. Next step is checking the lift pump pressure and compression.

engatwork 01-15-2013 09:23 PM

Check the movement and operation of the dampers in the intake manifold.

fdanielson 01-15-2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork (Post 3084375)
Check the movement and operation of the dampers in the intake manifold.

That was one of the first things I checked. I pulled the crossover tube and started it up to eliminate the flaps and EGR valve as a potential problem. It ran exactly the same.

KarTek 01-16-2013 12:58 PM

A distant memory for me is that the timing spec for the engine is something like 14 deg ATDC. +5 or so deg may just be chain stretch.

GregMN 01-16-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdanielson (Post 3084372)
... some other explanation for the sudden change in operation...

Bad fuel.

engatwork 01-16-2013 07:58 PM

^x2

Did you refuel shortly before it happened?

fdanielson 01-17-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork (Post 3084956)
^x2

Did you refuel shortly before it happened?

Nope. This was a long distance trip and I had fueled up the day before and gone at least five hundred miles before it started. Thinking that maybe I had sucked some goo off of the bottom of the tank I changed the spin on fuel filter and checked the primary filter on the next fill up.

whunter 01-17-2013 04:37 PM

A few thoughts
 
Sudden air leaks on these lines is common.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-parts-reference-library/192082-1995-e300-d-plastic-injection-pump-lines-om606-910-a.html

Delivery valve seal or O-ring failure is also common.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/173991-om60_series-ip-delivery-valve-reseal.html

Warning ALL Diesel Owners
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/309367-warning-all-diesel-owners.html#post2841158

Bad smelling fuel, what to do
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/94728-bad-smelling-fuel-gag-gasp-choke.html

Algae/Fungus fixation...
Algae/Fungus fixation... - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Biobor, what is it, why do I need it???
Biobor, what is it, why do I need it??? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Filters, Fungus, Biocide, etc.
Filters, Fungus, Biocide, etc. - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Algae Clogged Filter Pic StarTron WORKS !
Algae Clogged Filter Pic StarTron WORKS ! - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum



I hope it has nothing to do with this thread.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/229331-vacuum-pump-rebuild-thread.html#post1927867


.

Zulfiqar 01-17-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek (Post 3084715)
A distant memory for me is that the timing spec for the engine is something like 14 deg ATDC. +5 or so deg may just be chain stretch.

That is the injection timing - the cam timing is 0 degrees.

fdanielson 01-21-2013 06:07 PM

In the course of earlier troubleshooting I ran the car from a jug of fuel to bypass the tank, the fuel in it, the tank screen, and the supply lines. Then ran some diesel purge through it and that didn't help. Over the weekend I rigged up a test pipe in order to perform the lift pump volume and pressure tests and the pump is working well above specifications. At this point I am confident there is no supply side fuel problem and am very happy that I ran the tests instead of ordering a lift pump and relief valve that I didn't need.

I have the splined delivery valve socket on order and when that gets here I'll check, clean, and replace the seals on those.

Also on the agenda is seeing if I can make the injector adapter from my compression tester fit by pulling the valve cover and removing the injector and the well around it.

In the meantime my girlfriend has been nice enough to let me borrow her BMW M Roadster. Not a very practical car but a blast to drive. My daughter has striclty prohibited me from pressing the 'fun button' a.k.a. the button that disables the automatic skid control.

engatwork 01-21-2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

borrow her BMW M Roadster
Got any pictures?

fdanielson 01-21-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork (Post 3087529)
Got any pictures?

Not handy, it's 2000 in Imola red. The one in this ad M Roadster Buyers Guide - Sale Listings - 2001 BMW M Roadster - Imola Red 2 over Imola Red & Black Nappa looks just like it.

Zulfiqar 01-22-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdanielson (Post 3087435)
In the course of earlier troubleshooting I ran the car from a jug of fuel to bypass the tank, the fuel in it, the tank screen, and the supply lines. Then ran some diesel purge through it and that didn't help. Over the weekend I rigged up a test pipe in order to perform the lift pump volume and pressure tests and the pump is working well above specifications. At this point I am confident there is no supply side fuel problem and am very happy that I ran the tests instead of ordering a lift pump and relief valve that I didn't need.

I have the splined delivery valve socket on order and when that gets here I'll check, clean, and replace the seals on those.

Also on the agenda is seeing if I can make the injector adapter from my compression tester fit by pulling the valve cover and removing the injector and the well around it.

In the meantime my girlfriend has been nice enough to let me borrow her BMW M Roadster. Not a very practical car but a blast to drive. My daughter has striclty prohibited me from pressing the 'fun button' a.k.a. the button that disables the automatic skid control.


When the engine is running bad - ensure that you have good flow of exhaust from the tail pipe - the soot trap/oxidiser maybe clogged.


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