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  #1  
Old 01-18-2013, 06:25 PM
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Long Brush Regulators?

Hi,

Looking at alternators and regulators for w123 cars, I ventured over to see what would be available for an equivalent w107.

They do have a 70A alternator with the standard spade connectors like the OR w123 alternators... AL-68-X-INT (006-154-61-02-88), which I assume fits...



But what interests me is the voltage regulator sold on the same Pelican page:
1982 Mercedes-Benz 380SL Convertible - Charging System & Battery - Page 1

The Bosch is marked 14V, and the Hella is marked 14.1V. Ive used the Hella one in the Bosch alternator in my E30 BMW, and it took the voltage up a bit over the stock Bosch. But 14.1V is roughly what you will get slightly below freezing (and it will go a bit higher at colder temps), as a voltage regulator should do.

But what is interesting is the Huco regulator:



Notice the specification - 14.6V! Its only $14.25 as well.

Thing is, these regulators are listed as "long brush".

Now, going to the page for my 82 300CD:

1982 Mercedes-Benz 300CD Coupe - Charging System & Battery - Page 1

THe regulators, which look identical, are called "short brush". Does anyone know anything about this? It sure looks to me like the regulators for the AL-40 or whatever the OE w123 alternator is look like these long brush variants for the higher output alternators.

Heck, the "short brush" regulators shown on the w123 page look like the brushes are longer than the "long brush" ones on the w107...



I cant imagine there are many variations here on the full line of older Bosch alternators....

I may just buy an AL68 or 69, but my alternator seems to be fine. I just want a few more tenths of a volt for battery purposes... I dont have big draw loads in my car that demand a >100A alternator.

But Id sure like that 0.5V from something as simple as a drop-in regulator!!!

Any thoughts on this?

Also does anyone know if the AL-68 and 69 bolt right up to the OM616/617? Are the cases identical and bolt-up? There is so much talk about the 129 versions, but I dont need that capacity I dont think...

Thanks!
__________________
Own:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (162k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1998 Chevrolet S-10 ZR2 (62K)
2011 BMW 135i cv (14k)
2014 Honda Odyssey (6k)
2015 Honda Accord Hybrid (5k)
Had:
2008 VW Rabbit (70k)
2004 SAAB 9-3 (83k)
1991 BMW 318i (183K)
1983 300D (228K) (wrecked by at-fault uninsured driver)
1985 300D (233K) (now in FL)
1994 Acura Integra (188k) (Rusted out)
1992 Toyota 4Runner (72k) (Rusted out)
1990 Daihatsu Rocky (??) (No parts)
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:14 PM
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You could Email Pelican and ask.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:48 PM
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Answer

The long brush regulator is for the W126 300SD.


.
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:17 PM
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i just installed the huco in my w123 (made a thread about it.) it works great, especially for the quality and price. i'm getting 14.1V max out of it (40-60 degree weather right now)
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepstar View Post
i just installed the huco in my w123 (made a thread about it.) it works great, especially for the quality and price. i'm getting 14.1V max out of it (40-60 degree weather right now)
I saw that thread, wasnt sure if it was the same regulator. Yours is marked 14.6V? Is it the "long brush" version put into an OE/stock 55/65A Bosch w123 alternator?

Thanks!
__________________
Own:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (162k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1998 Chevrolet S-10 ZR2 (62K)
2011 BMW 135i cv (14k)
2014 Honda Odyssey (6k)
2015 Honda Accord Hybrid (5k)
Had:
2008 VW Rabbit (70k)
2004 SAAB 9-3 (83k)
1991 BMW 318i (183K)
1983 300D (228K) (wrecked by at-fault uninsured driver)
1985 300D (233K) (now in FL)
1994 Acura Integra (188k) (Rusted out)
1992 Toyota 4Runner (72k) (Rusted out)
1990 Daihatsu Rocky (??) (No parts)
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
The long brush regulator is for the W126 300SD.


.
Or a w107 as I linked to. Is there a fundamental difference in the brush or the alternator? It seems per sleepstar's comments, that perhaps there is not...
__________________
Own:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (162k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1998 Chevrolet S-10 ZR2 (62K)
2011 BMW 135i cv (14k)
2014 Honda Odyssey (6k)
2015 Honda Accord Hybrid (5k)
Had:
2008 VW Rabbit (70k)
2004 SAAB 9-3 (83k)
1991 BMW 318i (183K)
1983 300D (228K) (wrecked by at-fault uninsured driver)
1985 300D (233K) (now in FL)
1994 Acura Integra (188k) (Rusted out)
1992 Toyota 4Runner (72k) (Rusted out)
1990 Daihatsu Rocky (??) (No parts)
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:42 PM
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yep same one, its marked 14.6v. i'm not sure if its long brush or not.... i put it in the stock bosch alternator.
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:17 AM
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If my memory serves me right there are two differant regulators for bosh alternators. The slip ring that the brushes ride against are of two different diameters.

There may even be more but I am unaware. Anyays I think both would be electrically the same but the right one should be used for the intended alternator.
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:10 AM
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I just put a HUCO in my 380SL and the brushes were short. I would say the alternators are the same.
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:07 PM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
Or a w107 as I linked to. Is there a fundamental difference in the brush or the alternator? It seems per sleepstar's comments, that perhaps there is not...
The slip ring that the brushes ride against are of two different diameters.

The short brush will work in the W107 - W126 for emergency only, but will burn the brushes beyond contact, typically within 30 days = charging failure.


.
__________________
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asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2013, 06:08 PM
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^^ Well, I didn't know that. The HUCO description says "long brush" but it doesn't look long to me.
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
The slip ring that the brushes ride against are of two different diameters.

The short brush will work in the W107 - W126 for emergency only, but will burn the brushes beyond contact, typically within 30 days = charging failure.


.
What about in reverse, which is the important one - long brushes in a w123 short brush regulator setup???
__________________
Own:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (162k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1998 Chevrolet S-10 ZR2 (62K)
2011 BMW 135i cv (14k)
2014 Honda Odyssey (6k)
2015 Honda Accord Hybrid (5k)
Had:
2008 VW Rabbit (70k)
2004 SAAB 9-3 (83k)
1991 BMW 318i (183K)
1983 300D (228K) (wrecked by at-fault uninsured driver)
1985 300D (233K) (now in FL)
1994 Acura Integra (188k) (Rusted out)
1992 Toyota 4Runner (72k) (Rusted out)
1990 Daihatsu Rocky (??) (No parts)
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
What about in reverse, which is the important one - long brushes in a w123 short brush regulator setup???

I have both versions in my parts stash. But an not going to try them out. My guess is that the longer one will hit on the brush holder with the larger slip ring diameter but really am not sure.

There is seldom much discussion about the slip rings but grooves do get worn in them over time. It may be best to have a look at the general condition of the slip rings before putting another regulator in. Some are basically worn pretty bad. Slip rings are a replaceable part that a good alternator shop can replace. Really like bearings a wear item.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:18 AM
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My move may be to just buy the 70A alternator with the correct spade terminals, and attach a 14.6V regulator to it at some point.

Im assuming that those AL-68 and 69 alternators mount up identically to the OE w123 alternators, and there isnt a size or clocking issue... Any ideas?
__________________
Own:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (162k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1998 Chevrolet S-10 ZR2 (62K)
2011 BMW 135i cv (14k)
2014 Honda Odyssey (6k)
2015 Honda Accord Hybrid (5k)
Had:
2008 VW Rabbit (70k)
2004 SAAB 9-3 (83k)
1991 BMW 318i (183K)
1983 300D (228K) (wrecked by at-fault uninsured driver)
1985 300D (233K) (now in FL)
1994 Acura Integra (188k) (Rusted out)
1992 Toyota 4Runner (72k) (Rusted out)
1990 Daihatsu Rocky (??) (No parts)
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:46 PM
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I got a rebuilt 55A alternator from NAPA recently, and it had a 14.1V setpoint. The regulator was unmarked but the case looked like the generic "Import Direct" regulators that you sometimes see for these cars. Big square plastic shield over the regulator, instead of a bare metal case.
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