Looking at another 87 300D, could use advice - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BodhiBenz1987 · #1 02-02-2013, 01:27 AM

My dad and I went to look at another 1987 300D today and I thought I'd fish for opinions from you guys. The car is owned by a 91-year-old who bought it new and is pretty fond of it, but can't really drive it anymore ... it has basically been sitting in the lot at the retirement facility, getting an occasional drive. It has 178,000. My dad met this man by chance a few months ago, and got chatting about the car ... at the time the man did not want to sell ... my dad left him his number in case he ever did (not the first time my dad has done that when meeting someone with a nice old Mercedes). Well, now he needs to sell it. It is not listed anywhere yet. He and his daughter showed it to us today. They really weren't sure of what kind of price to ask, and despite reading many for-sale posts and conversations I'm not totally sure what to tell them (goes without saying, I hope, that I want to be fair and honest). I don't think they're looking to make much on it, just to get it to someone who can use it. Here's the scoop:
Good:
-Car is very near rust-free, from what I could tell without disassembling it. We are told it was seldomly driven in winter conditions, even though it lived it's whole life in Maryland and Delaware.
-Paint is basically very good, original champagne metallic ... owner says it was never repainted and I don't see obvious signs of a repaint. There are tons of tiny surface scratches in the finish, as if someone cleaned it with an abrasive pad, but I am almost certain these will buff out.
-Needs serious cleaning in and out but all the bits and pieces are there and straight, no dents, dings, tears, cracks, etc.
-Started pretty easily on a 30-degree day after obviously sitting for an extended period (battery was dead, we had to jump it). No ominous engine sounds at idle or throttle. Oil pressure normal, temps normal.
-Shifts great. I was only able to do somewhat light driving, though.
-No oil in coolant, trans fluid looked and smelled OK
-No blow-by
Bad:
Needs a lot. The owner obviously cares about the car, but I think a lot of things have just been missed because of his age. For the same reason it was a bit of a challenge to dig for information from him. He told me it's always had maintenance done, but no engine work or suspension work. His daughter is pretty knowledgeable about cars in general, but does not know every detail of what he's done with the car. I think he's been pretty independent up until recently, and he (understandably) still wants to be. She did give me the name of a mechanic who's serviced it in the past (mainly a Porsche guy actually), and said he would be a good person to ask about the car's history and maybe get some clearer answers. In no particular order:
-Ball joint boots are majorly cracked
-Front LCA bushings are pretty much gone on the back of the wishbone
-Rear tire camber looks drastically negative, though I didn't see obvious worn linkage back there. I'd like a better look though. It was very cold and I didn't want to make this 91-year-old man stand out there too long.
-Major vibration in the car at idle, I suspect motor mounts, which looked lower than spec (I did not measure) ... but could be something else
-Brake fluid looked black
-Coolant low, about an inch to 1.5 inches below full mark. When we arrived and opened the hood, the reservoir cap was sitting upside down on the reservoir. The owner wasn't sure why. A bit disconcerting. This also made the upper rad hose test moot. Not sure if it's burning coolant, leaking it, or if some was lost out the open cap.
-Oil leak(s) down engine. Hard to tell where. Some looked to be from oil level sensor, but I did see some under the head area and down the block. Level was OK but not sure at what rate it loses it. Forgot to ask if he has to add oil (duh). Belly pan was on so I couldn't use puddles as gauges. Trans encapsulation panel is there too.
-Return lines totally shot (no big deal, other than it suggests perhaps not much attentiveness in the engine compartment)
-Doggish on back-road hills (all four of us were in it), though it seemed OK off the line on flats. Not as spritely as mine. I know this could be a number of things ... filters, overboost lines blocked up, EGR still plugged in, rarely driven and never driven hard.
That's all I can remember right now. My thinking was, given how much needs to be done just to get the car in driving condition, and the unknowns about coolant and oil leaks (we did collect an oil sample and will have it checked for coolant), that this is a $1,500 car. I'm really not sure what the price should be though, to be honest. More? Less? The body condition, IMO, makes it a good candidate to fix up, but it would expensive and time-consuming to do so off the bat. At the very least I think it needs the ball joints and LCA bushings to be safe.
A lot of you have bought and sold these, so I would appreciate any input. My dad would like to have one of these again, and I'd be happy to have something else to play with. I do like fixer-uppers. But bottom line, I want to be fair to these people and I do not want to rip anybody off ... including myself.

If my dad and I don't buy it, we at least want to give them good advice.
Sorry this was so long ... just wanted some experts' input.

rkpatt · #2 02-02-2013, 06:29 AM

I recommend not buying it if it has the #14 cylinder head (prone to cracking).

(picture of number here -
1987 Mercedes 300D W124 - rkpatt’s Photo Gallery - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum )

TimFreeh · #3 02-02-2013, 07:00 AM

I agree with your observations, it sounds like a $1500 dollar car to me, but I'm sure there are others here that will say its more like $3000.

It sounds like a basically nice car that has been owned by a Mercedes fan, but not a fanatic and as a nearly 25 year old car it needs a lot of things to make it a fun and safe to drive.

shertex · #4 02-02-2013, 07:08 AM

Your price sounds about right, but I bet it will be difficult for the gentleman to let it go for that....unlikely that he has a realistic assessment of pricing.

BTW retirement communities are a great source for these cars....that's where I got my 91 300D.

rs899 · #5 02-02-2013, 07:53 AM

$1500? Yeah, something like that. OTOH, just in the last 2 or 3 months I am amazed at the prices of used low end cars. I have a start page for the Orlando CL Cars & trucks -by owner that has a sort for $50-$1200. There's almost nothing in that range now, whereas just a few months ago there were scores.

DieselPaul · #6 02-02-2013, 07:59 AM

Its extremely difficult to buy cars from original owners, that guy remembers the day he cut a $45,000 check for the car. I've tried to buy several SLs from original owners and just couldn't get together on price because they thought a $25,000 loss was a big enough concession on their end when they really needed to be taking a $50,000 loss.

$1,500 also grabs me as a fair number if its not rusty.

DieselPaul · #7 02-02-2013, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkpatt

I recommend not buying it if it has the #14 cylinder head (prone to cracking).

(picture of number here -
1987 Mercedes 300D W124 - rkpatt’s Photo Gallery - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum )

I think its been pretty well established that a 17/20/22 is bonus but a 14 isn't a deal breaker. They don't all crack, not even half of them crack, the #14 issue is overblown.

The OP also daily drives an 87 which I can't remember but I think she told me is still on a #14 at around 300,000 miles.

vstech · #8 02-02-2013, 08:51 AM

I agree, the vehicle sounds like it needs a lot. however, it's a low miles rare vehicle.
it's worth a minimum of 2500.
figure it like this.
the rust free nature of the car equals a solid foundation. EVERY SINGLE 87 needs a lot of repairs.
this one has low miles, shifts well, all original. original owner.
in perfect condition, the car's worth around 9K, it needs front and rear suspension remedies. you already know what's involved there.
yes, it's a pain to do everything at once, but it's not unexpected...
the coolant cap off, and low, could mean the head is cracked, or the gasket has failed... not the end of the world, but another expense. oil covering things, could simply be egr crud mixed with blowby, as could the sluggish acceleration.
you did not mention if it had leather or tex, so I will assume tex.
does the blower blow?
does the windshield wiper work correctly, and park?
do the seats all work? windows? steering wheel telescopic? memory seats? original radio? outside temp gauge? sunroof? lights?
obviously the lowest you can pay for the car the better, but you already know it drives and shifts. flush the coolant and brakes, then figure out what's worn on the rear suspension to get it aligned properly, then you have a driving car you can work on as you find time and money to do so.

be honest with them, explain all the problems you've found with the car, explain how much it's going to cost to do all the things it needs to get on the road with it.
see if 800 is a fair offer to them, then allow them to tell you what they really want for the car, let the negotiations bring up the value until both of you are satisfied in a price.

barry12345 · #9 02-02-2013, 10:12 AM

Authentic odometer readings are not that common. This may be one though.The car has not obviously been maintained properly at the same time if it is.

The coolant cap off does disturb me a little but it could also be something to do with the owners age. List all the things you found quickly to present to them if there is too great an expectation on their part pricewise. There will probably be more items found once you have the car. Or just make them an offer based on what you think is fair in the present condition if they expect you to make an offer.

Remember as well they may just be on a fishing trip to see what they can get. In otherwords if you make an offer they may then go looking for more. Perhaps better if you let them set a price and if too high use the repair list as leverage.

I would seal up the cooling system and do the morning after test of the rad hose. If that head is cracked the car is not worth very much with all the other stuff. Although if it did not run hot during your test drive is a good indicator it may not be.

TheDon · #10 02-02-2013, 10:12 AM

I'd buy it. I overpaid for my '87. I should have talked it down another $500 due to the work it needs.

Fulcrum525 · #11 02-02-2013, 06:02 PM

What? Now that you got the 240 going you need another challenge?

Doesn't sound too bad. I would just make sure that the coolant system and head are in good shape and then go for it. $2,000 sounds right in order to compensate for those inevitable unknown issues.

What color is the interior? How is the wood trim?

cooljjay · #12 02-02-2013, 06:52 PM

Being an antique dealer, I can tell you one hard and golden rule. Never make an offer! If they are the ones selling it, they must tell you the price. They are simply fishing, they want you to do an appraisal on the vehicle. Make them give you a price, if its right hand over the cash....if its to high walk away....if they ask you what you would give tell them....they'll say its ridiculous....let them list it and deal with that crowd for awhile....then you'll get a call.

Codifex Maximus · #13 02-03-2013, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

Being an antique dealer, I can tell you one hard and golden rule. Never make an offer! If they are the ones selling it, they must tell you the price. They are simply fishing, they want you to do an appraisal on the vehicle. Make them give you a price, if its right hand over the cash....if its to high walk away....if they ask you what you would give tell them....they'll say its ridiculous....let them list it and deal with that crowd for awhile....then you'll get a call.

Thumbs up to this advice!

BodhiBenz1987 · #14 03-18-2013, 10:31 PM

1) Long overdue thanks for all the advice.
2) It appears my dad and I got the car.

We won't be able to pick it up until next week, so I'll have more details (and pictures) then. I'm very excited ... I definitely need something to keep me busy and this should do the trick.

pwogaman · #15 03-18-2013, 10:45 PM

Congrats! To the extent it needs work, you can do it. I look forward to seeing it at Chad's this summer.