Boy front end rebuilds are a pain.... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Brian Carlton · #16 03-03-2013, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanclrk

The ball joint in compression hitting the control arm perpendicular to the ball joint...

Correct.

alanclrk · #17 03-03-2013, 11:29 PM

The anvil part I'll have to work on but I'll definitely go for it tomorrow. Thanks!

Brian Carlton · #18 03-03-2013, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanclrk

The anvil part I'll have to work on but I'll definitely go for it tomorrow. Thanks!

The anvil simply prevents any movement of the joint when you hit it. If the joint moves..........even very slightly...........you do not get the force necessary within the joint to deform the hole. This is where most folks fail...........there is no anvil to prevent movement of the joint when the joint is struck with a hammer.

The best anvil is the old blacksmith anvil:

Dan Stokes · #19 03-03-2013, 11:51 PM

I think Brian did a better job of saying what I was trying to say. The Pittman arm puller (as shown in some of the pics) can add force to shove the ball joint stem out of the taper. Or you can use an extra person with a pry bar but that won't work if the whole deal is out of the car.

Let us know how it works for you.

Dan

charmalu · #20 03-04-2013, 01:27 AM

Here is a good diagram Whunter posted.

123 Lower Ball Joint Replacement - in situ?

Charlie

vstech · #21 03-04-2013, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fattyman

I see the spring just hanging around there. Did you use the tool for that or did you just let it pop!?

there is a spring compressor in the picture.

Diesel911 · #22 03-04-2013, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fattyman

I see the spring just hanging around there. Did you use the tool for that or did you just let it pop!?

I made a Spring Compressor that compresses the Spring up into the Spring Perch.
In fact Mercedes shows one of their Spring compressors that does the same thing.

Notice in the Pic they show 2 Spring Compressors.

Diesel911 · #23 03-04-2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

As I thought.............improper procedure.

The pullers are not designed to impart sufficient force to break the joint (despite all the claims that you might have heard on here). I'd estimate that such a joint could easily withstand 10,000 lb. The pullers aren't strong enough for that.

The proper procedure is to set the puller onto the joint and tighten with moderate force............not enough to deform the puller. About 2000 lb. is more than sufficient (although I understand you cannot measure it).

While the joint is in compression, you sharply hit the side of the tapered joint. A heavy piece of steel or cast iron behind the joint which serves as the anvil will greatly assist. The action deforms the hole in the joint just enough to have it pop out due to the 2000 lb. compressive force from the "puller". Be sure to understand that you must have a rigid backing for the hammer blow to provide the necessary instantaneous force necessary to deform the hole. Smacking the hell out of it while it's swinging from the upper control arm isn't going to get the job done.

Since you now have it off the vehicle, use a rigid cement block with a piece of steel on top for the anvil. The joint will pop out with one or two blows after the puller is setup on it.

And, no...........you do not use a torch............and you do not hit the nut. You hit the side of the joint to momentarily deform the shape of the hole.

If you look at the design of the Rear Mercedes Ball Joint Remover Tool you see they did not design the Tool so that the sides of the Arm could be struck.
So the expectation was that the Tool all bay itself would be able to press the Joint out of the Lower Control Arm. (See Pic.)

I often done Myself and seen other strike the Shaft end of a Puller on the Nut where you tighten it had have that pop loose what is being pulled.

alanclrk · #24 03-06-2013, 03:42 PM

I wanted to finish the story for anyone interested... the striking the ball joint, joint, under stress with a pitman puller didn't work. Certainly part of the issue was the style of puller I was got in the way of hitting it.

Took it to a machine shop and they succeeded at separating the upper ball joint using a pneumatic pickle fork but failed at either ball joint removal or separating the lower ball joint.

Then I took it to an independent Mercedes shop and 1 hours worth of labor later ($130 at Calif prices) it was done. Ball joint separated and ball joints pressed in. I believe they heated it up or at least that was the option discussed when I dropped it off. If I was going to do this more than once in my life it might be worth buying the special ball joint tool JTC ball joint tool JTC #1849 referenced in :

Write up - Ball Joints & Lower Control Arm Bushings & Tool Review (PICS!)

The thought also occurs to me that it some piece is giving one too much trouble there's alway pickn'pull. I don't know what their prices are but it's an option.

As always thanks to everyone for their help and input!

alanclrk · #25 03-06-2013, 04:05 PM

Now that I look at the tool better is meant for W213, W126, W220 models not my W123.

SD Blue · #26 03-06-2013, 06:04 PM

I also went through a great deal of frustration on my first ball joint. I found that once you strike the top end of the ball joint, you are very likely to slightly mushroom the joint enough that drilling and heat, or other drastic measures will be required to remove the ball joint.

However, once I saw the technique WHunter showed using two large hammers, referenced by Charlie in post #20, the other side was a breeze. I tried the pitman arm puller, on the first one, and believe me the hammer ring method was drastically easier. The pitman arm puller just wanted to slide when I really applied the torque.

Brian Carlton · #27 03-06-2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

If you look at the design of the Rear Mercedes Ball Joint Remover Tool you see they did not design the Tool so that the sides of the Arm could be struck.
So the expectation was that the Tool all bay itself would be able to press the Joint out of the Lower Control Arm. (See Pic.)

I often done Myself and seen other strike the Shaft end of a Puller on the Nut where you tighten it had have that pop loose what is being pulled.

Well, now we have an issue with the terminology.

When the OP stated that "the upper ball joint is frozen but the lower came out without too much effort", my determination was that he could not separate the UCA from the ball joint. This process would utilize the method that I described above.

If this was not the situation and the OP was attempting to remove the ball joint from the spindle, none of my previous advice would have been applicable and hammering on the side of the joint wouldn't accomplish a damn thing because it's not a tapered joint.

The only method to remove and install the lower ball joint is FORCE......and a lot of it. This is best done with a hydraulic press, however the style noted in your post can possibly be successful, but I wouldn't count on it.

alanclrk · #28 03-06-2013, 09:30 PM

RE : SD Blue... certainly not the first time in my life I'm a day late and a dollar short. It wouldn't have hurt to try and maybe some heat as well.

I was charged an hours labor which included the ball joints which I figured were not going to be a piece of cake either. The first machine shop I went to tried with pneumatic tools, I presume, and the ball joints weren't coming out. I do know some people are getting them out and in by themselves.

BTW, originally on one side I had a seized lower joint and on the other side a seized upper joint.