Boy front end rebuilds are a pain....

[alanclrk]

Years ago I had a front end diagnosis and it included ball joint which I clearly do need but also all the other assorted parts to a front end rebuild (upper control arm, lower control arm bushing, idler arm, track rod mount, sway bar bushing).

I have the tool to remove the springs and did so on one side as well as having have removed control arm and steering knuckle. The tapered part of the ball joint won't separate but that's another story. I have approx 150 K miles on this 1985 machine and clearly do need lower ball joints. This project has been a pain as one could guess but those other parts don't look bad to me.

I guess I wonder if replacing all those other parts came under the heading of "do it while your there" sort of like a water pump when you do a timing belt. Frankly my debating with myself whether the rest of the parts are worth the effort. Any thoughts.... I do have the parts bought long ago.

Thanks,
Alan
1985 turbo
P.S. Boy did I need shocks as well.

[Diesel911]

If you are speaking of the Rubber upper and Lower Control Arm Bushings; some have
had Front End Alignments done without replacing the Bushings and Months-to a Year later have had the Bushings go bad and ruin the Alignment.

I think the Font end was a lot of work also. I had trouble getting of of the Lower Control Arm Bolts out that had rusted to the Aluminum Sleeve.
Others have had the same issue with the Upper Control Arm and have had to saw through the Arm and Bolt.
(Several Years later I knocked one of the lower Ball Joints out and did not have near the troulb others have had with that. I used a C-press like you can get as a free rental from AutoZone to press the Joing back in.)
I used a Homemade Spring Compressor that worked OK but took a lots and lots of turning and stress on Arthritic Shoulder Joints.

Although this company is not recommended I bought a URO front end Kit. It came with Tie Rods and a Drag Link Busing Kit along with the Ball Joints and Rubber Bushings.

I did not use the Ball Joints or the Tie Rods as I bought the whole kit because I did not know what I was going to need to replace.

[Diesel911]

Here is a thread on a OTC Ball Joint press that will work to remove the Lower Ball Joint from the Lower Control Arm.

Lower Ball Joint Separator for W123

OTC 8149 Conical Pitman Arm Puller is still being sold on Amazon for $19.99.

[alanclrk]

I just did the other side.... This time the upper ball joint is frozen but the lower came without too much effort.

At this point it is clear to me that that is what I am running into, frozen ball joints. One upper, one lower. I know how much force I was able to put on particularly the first lower ball joint. I thought about the amazon puller. Earlier I saw a post recommending it and it is sitting in my Amazon list, but not ordered.

I think I will take them to a local fellow that does front end work, the one who did the original diagnosis and as for an estimate for doing the ball joints which would include separating the frozen ones. I presume they have tricks up their sleeves. Torches, pneumatics... something. If he's charging in the $100 hr range I would think he could do it in that time and it would be worth it to me. I can get an opinion from him on the passanger upper ball joint which looks like a pain to get to under batteries and the like judging from the driver's side I am bringing to him. The one removed because it was frozen to the steering knuckle.

When I bought my parts I only got one track rod mount. That looks like a part replaceable without tearing apart everything. Have people replaced on general principle when on is rebuilding a front end?

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by alanclrk

I just did the other side.... This time the upper ball joint is frozen but the lower came without too much effort.

The question that begs is whether you understand the proper procedure for removing the tapered joints?

If you do, which I sense is not the situation, then it is not a PITA. If you do not, then it's much worse than a PITA..........it's nearly impossible.

[alanclrk]

I used a pitman puller with a 27" opening. Worked fine on the drivers side, the passenger side I broke one on it using more force than it was designed to have. That believe pitman puller has been used by others on this site.

[Dan Stokes]

You can work in a dolly of some sort (a heavy hammer will work) and smack the snot out of the other side with another heavy hammer. Leave the nut on a coupe of threads as they'll POP when they come loose. Sometimes it helps to have someone push on a prybar positioned such that the joint is "encouraged" to separate. If this trick doesn't get it resort to a pickle fork. You can borrow one from Auto Zone, Advance, etc. They simply force themselves between the spindle and the ball socket - crude but effective. It will destroy the grease boot but you'll be replacing that anyway.

I'll confess that I'm assuming that these are similar to most US, Japanese, English, Italian and other ones that I've done but really haven't done a Benz. These joints are pretty standard and I haven't found one yet that I can't get. Don't be afraid to pound them!

EDIT:

From my experience the control arm cross shafts are more likely to be a PITA. I had one where I had to resort to cutting the shaft and taking the shaft out in pieces (I used a torch but you might work a cutoff wheel in there). Of course this means a new shaft. I have a HF press but it might be easier to have them pressed if the new bushings give you a fit. A-Z and others have a kit to push those in (I own one of the kits) but they can really fight you, hence the press suggestion. They can be a real headache.

Dan

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by alanclrk

I used a pitman puller with a 27" opening. Worked fine on the drivers side, the passenger side I broke one on it using more force than it was designed to have. That believe pitman puller has been used by others on this site.

Did it have a shape similar to the one in the Pic.

In the other pic is how I got the Ball Joints out of the Lower Control Arm when I changed the Lower Control Arm Bushings.
Doing this ruins the Nut. You back the Nut of about 3 threads and I heat the Arm with a Propane Torch.
A couple of swings of the Hammer and it poped loose.

However, I got the Torch too close and ruind the Boots on the Ball Joint. Not a problem if your are replacing the Ball Joints.

when you don't have to worry about the Joint or Boot some have used a Pickle Fork between the Knuckle and the bottom of the Lower Control Arm.

,

[Fattyman]

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Did it have a shape similar to the one in the Pic.

In the other pic is how I got the Ball Joints out of the Lower Control Arm when I changed the Lower Control Arm Bushings.
Doing this ruins the Nut. You back the Nut of about 3 threads and I heat the Arm with a Propane Torch.
A couple of swings of the Hammer and it poped loose.

However, I got the Torch too close and ruind the Boots on the Ball Joint. Not a problem if your are replacing the Ball Joints.

when you don't have to worry about the Joint or Boot some have used a Pickle Fork between the Knuckle and the bottom of the Lower Control Arm.

,

I see the spring just hanging around there. Did you use the tool for that or did you just let it pop!?

[vstech]

Originally Posted by Fattyman

I see the spring just hanging around there. Did you use the tool for that or did you just let it pop!?

there is a spring compressor in the picture.

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by Fattyman

I see the spring just hanging around there. Did you use the tool for that or did you just let it pop!?

I made a Spring Compressor that compresses the Spring up into the Spring Perch.
In fact Mercedes shows one of their Spring compressors that does the same thing.

Notice in the Pic they show 2 Spring Compressors.

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by alanclrk

I used a pitman puller with a 27" opening. Worked fine on the drivers side, the passenger side I broke one on it using more force than it was designed to have. That believe pitman puller has been used by others on this site.

As I thought.............improper procedure.

The pullers are not designed to impart sufficient force to break the joint (despite all the claims that you might have heard on here). I'd estimate that such a joint could easily withstand 10,000 lb. The pullers aren't strong enough for that.

The proper procedure is to set the puller onto the joint and tighten with moderate force............not enough to deform the puller. About 2000 lb. is more than sufficient (although I understand you cannot measure it).

While the joint is in compression, you sharply hit the side of the tapered joint. A heavy piece of steel or cast iron behind the joint which serves as the anvil will greatly assist. The action deforms the hole in the joint just enough to have it pop out due to the 2000 lb. compressive force from the "puller". Be sure to understand that you must have a rigid backing for the hammer blow to provide the necessary instantaneous force necessary to deform the hole. Smacking the hell out of it while it's swinging from the upper control arm isn't going to get the job done.

Since you now have it off the vehicle, use a rigid cement block with a piece of steel on top for the anvil. The joint will pop out with one or two blows after the puller is setup on it.

And, no...........you do not use a torch............and you do not hit the nut. You hit the side of the joint to momentarily deform the shape of the hole.

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

As I thought.............improper procedure.

The pullers are not designed to impart sufficient force to break the joint (despite all the claims that you might have heard on here). I'd estimate that such a joint could easily withstand 10,000 lb. The pullers aren't strong enough for that.

The proper procedure is to set the puller onto the joint and tighten with moderate force............not enough to deform the puller. About 2000 lb. is more than sufficient (although I understand you cannot measure it).

While the joint is in compression, you sharply hit the side of the tapered joint. A heavy piece of steel or cast iron behind the joint which serves as the anvil will greatly assist. The action deforms the hole in the joint just enough to have it pop out due to the 2000 lb. compressive force from the "puller". Be sure to understand that you must have a rigid backing for the hammer blow to provide the necessary instantaneous force necessary to deform the hole. Smacking the hell out of it while it's swinging from the upper control arm isn't going to get the job done.

Since you now have it off the vehicle, use a rigid cement block with a piece of steel on top for the anvil. The joint will pop out with one or two blows after the puller is setup on it.

And, no...........you do not use a torch............and you do not hit the nut. You hit the side of the joint to momentarily deform the shape of the hole.

If you look at the design of the Rear Mercedes Ball Joint Remover Tool you see they did not design the Tool so that the sides of the Arm could be struck.
So the expectation was that the Tool all bay itself would be able to press the Joint out of the Lower Control Arm. (See Pic.)

I often done Myself and seen other strike the Shaft end of a Puller on the Nut where you tighten it had have that pop loose what is being pulled.

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by Diesel911

If you look at the design of the Rear Mercedes Ball Joint Remover Tool you see they did not design the Tool so that the sides of the Arm could be struck.
So the expectation was that the Tool all bay itself would be able to press the Joint out of the Lower Control Arm. (See Pic.)

I often done Myself and seen other strike the Shaft end of a Puller on the Nut where you tighten it had have that pop loose what is being pulled.

Well, now we have an issue with the terminology.

When the OP stated that "the upper ball joint is frozen but the lower came out without too much effort", my determination was that he could not separate the UCA from the ball joint. This process would utilize the method that I described above.

If this was not the situation and the OP was attempting to remove the ball joint from the spindle, none of my previous advice would have been applicable and hammering on the side of the joint wouldn't accomplish a damn thing because it's not a tapered joint.

The only method to remove and install the lower ball joint is FORCE......and a lot of it. This is best done with a hydraulic press, however the style noted in your post can possibly be successful, but I wouldn't count on it.

[alanclrk]

On the upper ball joint I used Harbor Freight item 99849. For the lower the puller was smaller but similar to item 1752.