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  #16  
Old 07-23-2013, 05:58 PM
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Part of the reason I think He needs to grid the Pin is that the PO also said His Tumbler turns without any tension on it and his Steering Colum remains locked.

That makes it sound like there is some other damage inside.

If there is damage inside it will be easier do deal with the Steering Colum Lock out.

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  #17  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
"the collar feels the same; some slack but still locked in" when the OP said this I took it to mean the Collar is actually loose but the Pawl/Locking Block is what is holding it.
That's what it sounds like. He can turn the collar only a few degrees either way but it won't unscrew all the way. I think due to binding, he can't retract the pawl enough to clear the slot in the collar. That's why I said to push the pin in and lift up on the pin to apply downward pressure to push the pawl down as much as possible, and with the soapy water, hopefully will do the trick.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Part of the reason I think He needs to grid the Pin is that the PO also said His Tumbler turns without any tension on it and his Steering Colum remains locked.

That makes it sound like there is some other damage inside.

If there is damage inside it will be easier do deal with the Steering Colum Lock out.
Didn't he say the key broke in the tumbler but he can still turn it? If that is true, then he can turn the tumbler to position 2 and push the pin in and retract the pawl. From the pic, you can see that the hole must be lined up in the correct position for it to work.
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by funola View Post
Didn't he say the key broke in the tumbler but he can still turn it? If that is true, then he can turn the tumbler to position 2 and push the pin in and retract the pawl. From the pic, you can see that the hole must be lined up in the correct position for it to work.
What I was speaking about is He said the Key was broke off but He could turn the Tumbler and there was no Spring Tension it. No Spring tension is abnormal.
He also said His Steering Colum is still Locked. Not specifically said is that His Steering Colum is still locked ever though the Tumbler is turned way past the Point where the Steering Colum is supposed to be Unlocked

This make Me think something inside of the Steering Colum Lock is Broken. He has already claimed several time He has the Tumble in the correct position and He cannot get the Sleeve off.

So to Me it is not looking like a mere Lock Tumbler issue. That is why I said He might be better off just biting the Bullet and do what is needed to get the Steering Colum Lock off. That way He can a least move His Car.

However, I hope You are right and the Soapy Water works for Him.
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2013, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
What I was speaking about is He said the Key was broke off but He could turn the Tumbler and there was no Spring Tension it. No Spring tension is abnormal.
He also said His Steering Colum is still Locked. Not specifically said is that His Steering Colum is still locked ever though the Tumbler is turned way past the Point where the Steering Colum is supposed to be Unlocked

This make Me think something inside of the Steering Colum Lock is Broken. He has already claimed several time He has the Tumble in the correct position and He cannot get the Sleeve off.

So to Me it is not looking like a mere Lock Tumbler issue. That is why I said He might be better off just biting the Bullet and do what is needed to get the Steering Colum Lock off. That way He can a least move His Car.

However, I hope You are right and the Soapy Water works for Him.
Isn't grinding the last resort? I did not grind when I had a tumbler issues and do not know what's involved. How many parts have to be destroyed? What's the cost of those parts. Must be a messy job also.

No doubt something's not right inside with the lack of spring tension. To find out what's not right gotta get inside to look. If the soapy water works it will save a lot of work and parts.

I forgot to say to use channel locks on the collar to get a good grip. It will be slippery with the soap.
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  #21  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:00 AM
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Once you get it apart, check it thoroughly. The problem in my 84 300D was not the tumbler sticking, but rather a spring-loaded detent in the back-side of the lock had broken off and would jam. You have to remove the staked steel plate to see it.
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by funola View Post
Isn't grinding the last resort? I did not grind when I had a tumbler issues and do not know what's involved. How many parts have to be destroyed? What's the cost of those parts. Must be a messy job also.

No doubt something's not right inside with the lack of spring tension. To find out what's not right gotta get inside to look. If the soapy water works it will save a lot of work and parts.

I forgot to say to use channel locks on the collar to get a good grip. It will be slippery with the soap.
Like I said from the OPs description it does not sound like He is having just a Lock Tumbler Problem.
The only thing I have been able to think of that would have the symptoms He said where the Tumbler Turns with out sprig tension that would be caused by the Tumbler is if the 2 nubs that rotate the Steering Colum Lock were worn out or broken off or that Plate with the nubs is sheared off of the Tumbler.

So We differ as to what We think the cause of the Problem is.

Grinding the locating Pin off does not render the Steering Colum Lock useless. It just means you need to visually make sure the Steering Colum Lock is lined up properly and that the Clamp is tight.

I have been waiting to see some action by the OP on this or some other info from the OP.

Since there is no Spring inside of the Tumbler itself do You have an opinion as to why there is no Spring Tension on the Tumbler when He turns it?
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  #23  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:47 PM
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I am hoping the problem is the two tangs on the tumbler itself has sheared off! Otherwise that means I need a new... what? Steering lock? Even if I grind the pin and get the wheel turning, does that ,mean I can't start the car without replacing the steering lock?
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  #24  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Secondaries View Post
I am hoping the problem is the two tangs on the tumbler itself has sheared off! Otherwise that means I need a new... what? Steering lock? Even if I grind the pin and get the wheel turning, does that ,mean I can't start the car without replacing the steering lock?
Well it is a Can of Worms.

Assuming the Steering Colum Lock is still good. If you remove it from the Steering Colum you can go 2 directions.

You can cut the Sleeve off and get out the Lock Tumbler.
If you get the Lock Tumbler Out and the Steering Colum Lock is still good you should be able to stick something inside to turn it so you can use the Car.

If after the Steering Colum Lock is out you manage to get the Electrical Connector off it exposes the screws that hold in the Ignition Switch and Housing.
Once that is separated from the Steering Colum Lock you can use some Nuts on the end of the Ignition Switch Screws to hold the Switch in the Housing; re-connect the Electrical Connector and use a Screwdriver to turn the Ignition Switch.


Depending on what your Goal is there could be another solution. That would be to drill out the Tumbler. If you look in the DIY Section there should be some info on that. I think that will allow removal of the Tumbler Sleeve.
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Last edited by Diesel911; 07-24-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:32 PM
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I wanted to post these pic earlier but I forgot.

Note that there are Broken Parts.
My steering Colum Lock thread
Steering Colum Lock (Ignition Lock Housing) causes Ignition Switch Failure

In the last pic some Members have had something go wrong with the Metal Finger inside where the Red Arrow Points.
Attached Thumbnails
Tumbler problem - key broke; turns freely-steering-colum-lock-spring-plunger.jpg   Tumbler problem - key broke; turns freely-steering-colum-lock-b-cam-part-turns-ignition-switch.jpg   Tumbler problem - key broke; turns freely-steering-colum-lock-c-broken-parts.jpg   Tumbler problem - key broke; turns freely-steering-colum-lock-d-finger.jpg  
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Last edited by Diesel911; 07-24-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:17 AM
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Okay, so after having a "professional" MBZ mechanic come look at my situation and not being able to do anything, I've decided to cut the damn thing apart. I already have the new tumbler and a new ignition switch, and I purchased on eBay a steering lock mechanism. Hoping to salvage my steel collar once I have the assembly off, but if that doesn't happen I will buy that too. Let you guys know when I have an update. Thanks for all the help.
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2013, 04:17 PM
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Steering lock pin has been drilled out, lock removed and the new one is ready for installation! Unfortunately, I can't get the steering column reinstalled. I have started a new thead here asking for help on that topic. Thanks again for everyone's help.

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