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  #16  
Old 09-18-2013, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deniss View Post
Ah, that makes sense. Because I measured voltage drop between the + terminal of the battery and the glowplug, and the voltage drop started around 1.5V (i.e., around 11V at the plug) and descreased to around 1.0V drop (i.e., around 11.5V at the plug) as the relay kept burning the glowplug. In other words, I did observe the voltage recover, and that puzzled me a little first.

Now, what can I use to ream the glowplug holes? What's the diameter?
The Reamer end of a stock Glow Plug Reamer is 7mm.
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2013, 09:46 PM
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My car never came with a block heater, it was order for California....and even had the low power starter.....hints to why I have issues when I came up here and winter temps are in the low 20s....
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
11.5 is not much drop really... volts should drop to around 10v with the glow plugs on, depending on how tip top shape your battery is. you need to measure ohms of resistance at each of the glow plug tips to ground with the harness disconnected. you can measure right from the harness socket, and the sockets are numbered in order of which glow plug you are measuring.
if you have an amp meeter that reaches 20 amps, you could measure the amp draw of each plug to see if any are bad also.
Actually, I will go back and redo those voltage measurements. I measured voltage differences but didn't take into account the possible drop in battery voltage during glowing operation.

I did measure resistances of the glowplugs using the harness, and each of them came out to about 1 Ohm.

I think what I will do next is remove the glow plugs one by one and watch what happens while the relay is energized.

I just want to thank everyone who took the time to chime in and offer suggestions! Also, thanks for the reamer size. I will keep you posted.
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:45 PM
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Just remember when you take them out to test, don't apply voltage for more then 60sec...30 would be better....that way you won't damage a plug if it is good....
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2013, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
Just remember when you take them out to test, don't apply voltage for more then 60sec...30 would be better....that way you won't damage a plug if it is good....
Thanks! I will make sure not to exceed 30 sec.
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  #21  
Old 09-19-2013, 01:21 AM
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Thanks for the info, folks. I've been wondering about this kind of thing for my conversion too. Temps tend to be relatively mild in the PNW, but we do see the occasional dip into the teens.
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  #22  
Old 09-19-2013, 07:54 AM
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I'm in NC Yota and at 58F mine was having trouble starting on what I now know was 3 bad glows.

Bein an MB newbie I can't say if that's normal. My datsun diesel pickup had trouble starting with only one bad glow in southern california summer when I was stationed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM617YOTA View Post
Thanks for the info, folks. I've been wondering about this kind of thing for my conversion too. Temps tend to be relatively mild in the PNW, but we do see the occasional dip into the teens.
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2013, 03:11 PM
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This may sound like a stupid question, but... Does the nut holding the wiring to the glow plugs require an 8-mm wrench? The smallest wrench I have is a 10-mm, so I gotta go shopping but wanted to verify first.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2013, 03:28 PM
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My 617 is 8mm. I use box racheting wrenches in 8 and 12 for the removal. I also took the hard lines off so my old hands could get in there with lots of nice room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deniss View Post
This may sound like a stupid question, but... Does the nut holding the wiring to the glow plugs require an 8-mm wrench? The smallest wrench I have is a 10-mm, so I gotta go shopping but wanted to verify first.
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2013, 08:18 PM
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Note: New Bosch Glow Plugs do not come with the little 8mm Hex Nuts and they are easy to drop.

Bosch or Beru Glow Plugs are the only ones Forum Members recommend. The Bosch ones are inexpensive and entirely adequate and easy to find.
The Beru Plugs are have better longevity but are more expensive and harder to find.
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2013, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Note: New Bosch Glow Plugs do not come with the little 8mm Hex Nuts and they are easy to drop.

Bosch or Beru Glow Plugs are the only ones Forum Members recommend. The Bosch ones are inexpensive and entirely adequate and easy to find.
The Beru Plugs are have better longevity but are more expensive and harder to find.
Yes and that is especially rude of them.....

I lost a few.....and I think the upgrade pencil plugs should include them.....
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:56 PM
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Alright, this morning I pulled each glowplug from the engine one by one to have a look at what I'm dealing with here.

Tips for other folks doing this job:

(1) I did not pull those injector hard lines, and I can vouch that the job is doable without pulling the lines, even with big hands, but I suggest you wear "Mechanix" gloves to protect your hands from getting scratched up in those tight spaces.

(2) A long 8-mm wrench for those little nuts is key. Mine was 6.3 inches long, and I wished it was longer, but it did the job.

(3) I used a 12-mm flex-head ratcheting box-end wrench to remove glowplugs, and this is a very nice wrench to have for this job, especially with the hard injector lines limiting wrench travel. Flex head really comes handy here, too.

(4) Loosen the clip holding injector hard lines #4 and #5 together and slide it toward the injection pump, out of the way, to avoid scratching your hands on it.

(5) Unhook the vacuum line (with the check valve) from the modulator (off-white plastic box) and shove the vacuum lines running above oil filter housing out of the way so you don't damage them in the process.

(6) For #4 and #5 glowplugs, you'll want to uncouple the thick throttle linkage rod that runs from the firewall and directly over the glowplug area. That rod connects to the manual "STOP" mechanism for the injection pump, and there's a spring pin which is easily removed, and you can free that throttle linkage rod. This way, you can maneuver it anywhere you need so you can get your hand/wrench in there.

(7) For #5 glowplug, there's that cooling hose in the way. Not to worry. Pull a little slack for the hose from the firewall and carefully flex the hose up and over the nut on top of the oil filter housing and let it rest on top of the oil filter housing as you work.

(8) On #5 glowplug, loosen the small nut holding the wiring to the glowplug but don't take it off the glowplug completely yet. There's no room to remove the nut by hand with the glowplug installed (especially if you dont want to lose the nut!). Instead, with the small nut loosened and the wiring free to move, use an open-end wrench to unbolt the glowplug from the hole and just pull it out with the wiring (unhook the oil pressure sending unit wiring to give you more slack). This way, you can have clear access to undo the little nut safely without losing it, and you can use the same procedure for re-assembly. Takes the pain out of #5 glowplug.

Observations:

Each plug was seated in carbon cake, which I could hear when I was pulling them out. Each plug was coated in soot around the tip area, although it was a thin coating and wiped off easily.

Reaming:

I reamed each hole using a 7-mm short-length drill bit, which I purchased at Mc-Master. Overall length of my drill bit was 74mm, and it fit even in the #5 hole, where access is obscured by oil filter housing. I improvised a little bit with my "reamer": I slid a piece of silicone hose on the handle of the drill bit. This served two purposes: (1) improve my handle on the drill bit and (2) limit the travel of the drill bit into the hole (hold the drill bit and the glow plug together, with the drill tip and the glowplug tip even and match the end of the hose to just past the bolt head on the glowplug). I put some dielectric grease into the flutes of the drill bit to collect the carbon cake.

I pulled out a LOT of carbon cake from each hole. I repeated 3 times for each hole. What I like about the drill bit solution is that you can sort of whirl it around gently in the hole after first reaming to scrape off maximum amount of carbon deposit. I pulled out quite a bit of carbon on both the first and the second reaming, while the third time produced just a bit of dusting.

Tests and measurements:

I tested each glowplug for glow, using the battery of my car to do it with the heavy-gauge cables that I made. Results: each plug begins glowing at the tip and produces orange-colored glow. Each plug took up to 3 seconds to develop that bright orange glow at the tip. Is that too long or normal?

After I reamed and re-assembled everything and tightened it all down, I re-measured the glowplugs...

Glowplug resistance (relay harness to battery ground):

#1: 1.7 Ohm
#2: 1.8 Ohm
#3: 1.7 Ohm
#4: 1.8 Ohm
#5: 1.7 Ohm

Voltage at each glowplug as soon as relay is switched on (glowplug to battery ground):

#5: 9.95V
#4: 10.00V
#3: 10.15V
#2: 10.18V
#1: 10.20V

This was the sequence in which I measured, so it's hard to say whether the creep up in the voltage was battery fatigue from glowing a bunch of times sequentially or diminishing efficiency of the plugs.

I should note also that while most of the glow rod is coated with some kind of an enamel, the tips have a different texture from the rest of the plug. I'm wondering if the coating burned off or corroded or whether I'm barking up the wrong tree with this observation?

So, based on my tests and observations, what would you guys advise me to do? Do I still need new plugs?
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Last edited by deniss; 09-20-2013 at 02:12 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2013, 02:14 PM
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The increase in battery voltage is due to the glow plugs drawing less current as they get hotter.
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:24 PM
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Wink

Diffrn't strokes fer diffrn't folks right? With the hard lines off you don't need to pop the linkage or have any issues getting fingers on number 5 nut . Add in arthritis and you'll find there is only one way to do it once you're not able to wiggle fingers.

Glows are super cheap so it ain't worth my time to put used ones back in after testing, it's more of a 'aha, that was my problem' type thing. In my case, it was a very dramatic change, new glows are on my September pre-winterizing list now.

Don't fergit the anti-seize.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
The increase in battery voltage is due to the glow plugs drawing less current as they get hotter.
No, those were initial readings for each plug, just after relay was energized. I did them one by one, turning the key for each glowplug tested separately.
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