W123 Excessive wear on outside of front tire

[JKatW123]

Hello, my 81' 300td is having a problem with the left front tire wearing on the outside. I just changed the steering box out and now its wearing on the right tire also on the outer tread. Both of the camber adjustments are at full positive camber and I cannot make any adjustments. I am baffled to as why it is doing this. Car has 222,000 miles. Has anybody else run into this? How to fix? Thanks

-Jason

[whunter]

What Front and Rear steering / suspension parts have you replaced?
Are all of the tires the exact same size?
Where are your wheel alignments done?
Is the car setting LEVEL?


.

[Alastair]

Mercedes W123 are VERY critical to the 'toe' alignments.

Even slight (up to 1 degree) out/in can wreck a set of front tyres in just a few thousand miles....

Get some good older experienced alignment shop to check it out.--One that uses 'Proper' alignment equipment--NOT this new 'Laser' Crap that generic places use. (and IME always aligns the thing Wrong!)

Align between parallel to 30 minutes toe in.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by JKatW123

Hello, my 81' 300td is having a problem with the left front tire wearing on the outside. I just changed the steering box out and now its wearing on the right tire also on the outer tread. Both of the camber adjustments are at full positive camber and I cannot make any adjustments. I am baffled to as why it is doing this. Car has 222,000 miles. Has anybody else run into this? How to fix? Thanks

-Jason

If the part in bold is accurate, I think that's the problem. Going from memory, the specs call for about zero static camber. Significant positive camber is no good for anyone, and will cause the symptom you describe (among others).

[JKatW123]

I recently lowered the front by cutting off one ring on the springs, new tie rods. Also if I set it back to neutral camber it seems like that would only make it worse.

[cooljjay]

I don't think its an alignment issue....I think you have a worn out upper control arm or bushings somewhere in between....look for torn boats and torn bushings....

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by JKatW123

I recently lowered the front by cutting off one ring on the springs, new tie rods. Also if I set it back to neutral camber it seems like that would only make it worse.

Well it sounds like you've buggered it up then doesn't it!!!

What are the rest of the components like? Are they in good shape?

Did you measure the caster angle after the spring chop?

Note that on a W123 chassis if you change camber you also change castor by a small amount and vice versa; lowering the ride height will have an effect on all of these settings - you'll need to shorten the length of the brake stay to make sure the castor gets brought back into spec first; whilst fiddling with the eccentric bolt on the lower control arm (LCA) to compensate the camber adjustment.

Camber and castor should be measured with the toe set to zero - the toe should be set with a spreader bar...

...do you need a link on how to do this yourself?


Trying to set up the suspension on a car with worn parts is a waste of time.

[Zulfiqar]

when I had my car aligned at a shop I helped the tech, what was learned that to get a mercedes (or any car with 8 or 10 degrees caster) to align is to follow the book.

If it says to check camber/caster at zero toe with no spreader bar then you follow it. Meaning when you move the camber or caster you will also move some of the toe, always align it to zero after every change.

When your caster is good and camber is good then you set toe - with a spreader bar. If the alignment tech tries to adjust it like it all at once. It wont work.

The problem arises due to the caster angle. You can also see the camber change when you turn the wheels. So you can well imagine how much of a headache it can be become if you try to align the camber/caster with bad toe.

Now to worn out parts, Sloppy parts will cause the car to seem unalignable as no amount of wrenching would yield the result. The biggest problem area are the lower ball joints. But as you have already chopped the spring, the height has already been compromised. So you would need to really work on it to align it.

[Diesel911]

If this is true: "Tire Tilt Tire wear
Sagging upper control arm bushings will cause the camber to become negative, resulting in inner edge tire wear."
Then if a Lower Control Arm Busing coincidently went bad it would cause the outer Tire Wear you are speaking of.

I had that happen to me on both Lower Control Arm Bushings and over the course of 3 days already had sever Tire wear.

I know that the trend of the answers has been that there might have been some maladjustment but You did not mention replacing any of the Bushings.

[winmutt]

Or you just have significant outer wear because of your driving habits. I know I certainly do!

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by winmutt

Or you just have significant outer wear because of your driving habits. I know I certainly do!

Nice one

[JKatW123]

Okay I'll look into getting some lower control arm bushings, and if that doesn't work I'll have to take it to a shop or read up on how to do a garage alignment.
-Thanks

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by JKatW123

Okay I'll look into getting some lower control arm bushings, and if that doesn't work I'll have to take it to a shop or read up on how to do a garage alignment.
-Thanks

You can't see what is in the first pic but where I stuck the Toot Pics is supposed to be solid Rubber. The Control Arms pivot on the Elasticity of the Rubber.
In My case as you can see the rubber got old and stiff and actually sheared into 2 sections; hidden from view inside of the Control Arm.

In the other pics you see the normal W123 Bushings with the separate Aluminum Center Tube and the W126 Bushings that if you look in the EPC type parts is listed for heavy duty or Cars with 15 inch Tires. Some People have been using the W126 Bushings instead of the Stock ones.

[Diesel911]

I just though of this.
If you have the Bundt type Alloy Wheels you can rotate your un-worn Rear Tires to the front and find someplace level to park, remove the little central Hub Caps and use the Angle Finder straight up and down a cross the flat surface where the Hub Cap was to see if the Chamber is off.

If the Chamber is not off it is likely you have some other issue.

The Angle finders range from extremely cheap at cheapie Tool Stores to more high quality ones.
You or a Neighbor may already have one have one and there is other types of Angle Finders that can be used.

[BillGrissom]

Originally Posted by Alastair

Mercedes W123 are VERY critical to the 'toe' alignments.

Even slight (up to 1 degree) out/in can wreck a set of front tyres in just a few thousand miles....

True of all cars. Too much toe-in will quickly wear the front tires, similar to the OP's experience. I once adjusted the front height in my 69 Dart (easy w/ torsion bars). We then went on a 100 mi trip w/ new tires and they were badly worn on the inside afterwards. I didn't know that the toe-in changes with height, which is probably true on most cars. Height sags over time, which means you should check toe-in every 5 years or so. The OP did state that they buggered with the ride height, though their wear is on the outside, so maybe a toe-out condition (makes driving very squirrelly).

One quite accurate way to measure toe-in is to hold a 4 ft carpenter's level (any straight object) horizontally along a front tire and sight at the rear tire, with the steering wheel straight. If your rears are as wide as the front, you should sight ~0.5" away from the rear, equally on both sides, to give ~1/16" toe-in. You can do similar using a tape measure from fwd to aft on the front wheels, which is easiest if your tires have straight channels. You will find that even a 1/16 rotation of the adjusting rod makes a detectable change, which is probably the best finesse an alignment shop can do with all their laser equipment, plus probably the best that will hold for any length of time.

Camber could also wear the sides of the tires, but it would have to be very extreme to do so. Radial tires easily bulge to keep the contact patch flat on the road, so you can get away with a lot of camber without much wear. Many people do that on purpose for better cornering (negative camber).