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  #1  
Old 01-17-2014, 07:11 PM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster300SD View Post
I will check and see if I can find out if they sandblasted it or not.
If they did, can that be fixed?
I know they didn't skim it.

Thanks,
Jeff
Resurfacing is the only possible answer.


.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2014, 09:56 PM
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Get it resurfaced?

Do you mean that they resurfaced it and that is the reason it failed--
or do you mean that having it resurfaced is the only way to solve my problem?

Thanks,
Jeff
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster300SD View Post
Do you mean that they resurfaced it and that is the reason it failed--
or do you mean that having it resurfaced is the only way to solve my problem?

Thanks,
Jeff
The PO said they did not resurface the Head becasue it was within spec.

Apparently Hunter PMed and ask if the sand Blasted the Head; I guess meaning the part of the Head the Head Gasket Seats on.

I am curious to see what the answer is as I have not worked any place where the sandbasted the Deck of the Head. That was done when needed with wet/Dry Sand Paper and a flat Block.

Also some shops have Basters that use coarse media (OK for Exhaust Manifolds or the exterior parts) and other have Blasters that use Glass Bead Media.
Every Place I worked they used glass Bead Media.

It has not been mentioned but once in a while the top surface of the Block is warped. Most People don't have a precision staight Edge at home to check the surface of the Block and you cannot always get away with not checking it.

It has not been mentioned if that was checked or not and the condition of the surface has not been mentioned.

I know on Gasser Engines you need to be carful to clean the crud out of the Bottom of the Head Bolt Holes and chase the Threads and use the proper lube so you don't get a false torque on them.
I have been I have only had a few Engines that needed the Head Bolts or Nuts tightend to some angle after torqueing them.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:37 PM
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FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The PO said they did not resurface the Head becasue it was within spec.

Apparently Hunter PMed and ask if the sand Blasted the Head; I guess meaning the part of the Head the Head Gasket Seats on.

I am curious to see what the answer is as I have not worked any place where the sandbasted the Deck of the Head. That was done when needed with wet/Dry Sand Paper and a flat Block.

Also some shops have Basters that use coarse media (OK for Exhaust Manifolds or the exterior parts) and other have Blasters that use Glass Bead Media.
Every Place I worked they used glass Bead Media.

It has not been mentioned but once in a while the top surface of the Block is warped. Most People don't have a precision staight Edge at home to check the surface of the Block and you cannot always get away with not checking it.

It has not been mentioned if that was checked or not and the condition of the surface has not been mentioned.

I know on Gasser Engines you need to be carful to clean the crud out of the Bottom of the Head Bolt Holes and chase the Threads and use the proper lube so you don't get a false torque on them.
I have been I have only had a few Engines that needed the Head Bolts or Nuts tightend to some angle after torqueing them.
The patten on this picture is where my concern came from

Inside Rooster's WVO head

there was no PM involved, I still hope I am wrong (deceived by a poor quality picture).


.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:41 PM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster300SD View Post
Do you mean that they resurfaced it and that is the reason it failed--
or do you mean that having it resurfaced is the only way to solve my problem?

Thanks,
Jeff
If it was sand blasted = the only way to fix the issue is to (if possible) resurface the cylinder head.

IMO: At this point, the cylinder head MUST come off for any further diagnosis or repair..

.
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Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
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Fleet Durability
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1983 300D
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:50 PM
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Just before head removal. Try getting a feel for how tight the head bolts are. If some are pretty loose they may have been too soft for example even though new.

Or good stretch bolts over torqued by a poorly calibrated torque wrench. This before the final partial final turns took them too far. Both senarios are unlikely but only takes a moment to check.

I think you also mentioned you took them to torque and then removed them to install the washers. Taking them to torque could have started the stretch process a little. When you retorqued them the second time after washer installation they may have stretched a little more. Then you applied the final stretches. This may have been a little too much.

I have limited experience but the stretch component must be carefully engineered in material wise. Once you reach a certain point they could continue stretching under working load later if their point of no return was neared. This is when a stretch bolt actually will stretch or elongate easier than before. Or under less pressure. If you define half way installed head bolts before removal to add washers may help. For example. Not up to initial total torque, up to initial total torque, total torque and first freehand partial stretch turn.
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  #7  
Old 02-04-2014, 03:19 PM
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Update

I pulled the head and took it to the shop.
No cracks but it is 4 thousands out of spec for flatness.
They are going to fix that and redo one of the valves.

Once I pulled the manifold, I could see there was oil & coolant leaking from
the HG. I'm going to clean out all the bolt holes with a tap before installing
the new bolts. I'm using a calibrated torque wrench borrowed from my neighbor who's a retired mechanic.

I'm going to surgically clean those mating surfaces.
Hopefully, this will be the last time for this head!!

Thanks for all the advice.

Jeff
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2014, 04:56 PM
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You are welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster300SD View Post
I pulled the head and took it to the shop.
No cracks but it is 4 thousands out of spec for flatness.
They are going to fix that and redo one of the valves.

Once I pulled the manifold, I could see there was oil & coolant leaking from
the HG. I'm going to clean out all the bolt holes with a tap before installing
the new bolts. I'm using a calibrated torque wrench borrowed from my neighbor who's a retired mechanic.

I'm going to surgically clean those mating surfaces.
Hopefully, this will be the last time for this head!!

Thanks for all the advice.

Jeff
I sincerely hope this is the last time..

.
__________________
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Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
2003 Volvo V70

https://www.boldegoist.com/
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:33 PM
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Sorry to hear of your problem. I might have missed it but did any one ask what type of gasket you used? I was told Victor Reinz is the best and that's what I've always used. And be sure to back fill the head with coolant first time you fire it up you don't want any bubbles in it, Search burp the engine for a lot of discussion on that. There is also a vacuum backfill kit made by MityVac but simply adding water into the head thru the heater hose, not just thru the reservoir is easy and effective.

Trying to remember how I cleaned out the bolt holes when I installed a rebuilt head on my '87 300D but I had a long brush I think I found it in a hardware store, probably made for some household chore but it was about 3/8 in across the nylon bristles, it was a tight fit. I used some solvent and rotated the brush out like a screw.
Following that I inserted a long thin air tube and blew out the holes from the bottom up. You'll probably see lots of stuff will emerge.
I would be careful if using a tap not to take out any metal as the torque process might be modified (less metal). I did use some 30W oil as I recall on the bolts, do not fill the holes, you can't compress that stuff!

I did the work under the wing of an old European mechanic and he refused to reuse stretch bolts and FWIW its held up for 6 maybe 7 years now and is still running great except another Glow Plug failed recently. Damned thing is I have an '85 OM617 turbo engine in my '79 300TD with parallel glow plugs fed by the original GP timer and those plugs have been good for over 20 years now, I just checked them and I expecting at least one of them to have opened up but they are still AOK! and that car has about 110K miles on it since the GPS were installed at a major rebuild. Quite a lot of time for those glow plugs don't you think? so why has the '87 had three GPs fail in a fraction of the time? and I have not made the GP afterglow mod to it either. Oh well as they say YMMV.
DDH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster300SD View Post
I pulled the head and took it to the shop.
No cracks but it is 4 thousands out of spec for flatness.
They are going to fix that and redo one of the valves.

Once I pulled the manifold, I could see there was oil & coolant leaking from
the HG. I'm going to clean out all the bolt holes with a tap before installing
the new bolts. I'm using a calibrated torque wrench borrowed from my neighbor who's a retired mechanic.

I'm going to surgically clean those mating surfaces.
Hopefully, this will be the last time for this head!!

Thanks for all the advice.

Jeff
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