Please offer a tip for starting 1987 190d turbo - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Rustyh · #1 02-27-2014, 07:12 PM

Ok my bonehead son ran his 87 190D turbo dry for the second time.

First time it cost $300 for a very nice shop in Raleigh to get it started. Not including the tow. I really don't know what they did and I am far enough away from Raleigh that the tow to their shop would be steep. So we are trying to get it going ourselves. The mechanic that usually works on the car indicated we need to spin the engine until it catches. He has offered some additional field suitable options that are included in the list below.

Before I give up and drag it to a shop I would like some suggestions.

We have charged the battery numerous times and spun the engine until the battery dies and it wont start. This is the method that works on our 87 300TD.

We have over half a tank of diesel in it now.

We filled the plastic pre filter with fuel - no luck - does not seem to draw from filter.

So we removed the fuel line from the clear plastic pre filter and checked fuel flow. Origionally not much so we used an air hose to blow back through the line to the sock filter in the tank. Fuel flows well now. Still does not start.

We removed the screw that holds the main fuel filter and topped off the filter canister with fuel and replaced the filter. No luck. But it sure sounded like it wanted to start.

Tonight we removed the fuel line from the main filter to the injector pump. There is no fuel flow out of the main filter when the line is loose.

So we removed the fuel line that supplies the main filter from a pre pump (I think). Cranked the car. No luck. No flow evident.

We tried pressurizing the fuel tank with compressed air. Thinking we could force fuel closer to some pump that is not siphoning well. No luck. The fuel does plow out of the line before the pre filter pretty well though.

I want my 78 300D back with the hand prime pump.

Any suggestions or ideas?
Thanks,
Rusty

Mxfrank · #2 02-27-2014, 08:23 PM

I also have a 190DT. The self priming lift pumps on these cars really suck (or should I say don't). First of all, don't crank continuously. Crank 15 seconds, wait 15, crank 15, etc. Otherwise you overheat the starter, and you have a real problem.

Having reached the point that the battery is run down, try this quick solution. Undo the main spin-on fuel filter. Fill it with fresh Diesel. If you don't have Diesel, you can use kerosene, lamp oil, transmission fluid, or corn oil. Not gasoline. Put the filter back, and crank. The car will start almost instantly, run for a few and then die. Repeat until it keeps running.

For future reference, do this with a full tank. The extra head will help.

mannys9130 · #3 02-28-2014, 01:39 AM

You NEED to crack open the injector hard lines at the injectors if you want any hope of starting a dry engines. No other way to get all the air out.

Use a 14mm wrench and loosen all 5 injector hardline nuts.

Have your son put the gas pedal to the floor and crank the engine, like Mxfrank said only 15 seconds at a time.

You stand over the engine bay and watch for diesel starting to squirt out of the tops of the injectors where the loosened nut is. Once the fuel starts dribbling out, tell your son to stop cranking and then tighten the dribbling injector nuts down snug.

You may need 4-5 cycles of cranking before getting fuel at the injectors.

Once 3-4 hardlines are tightened, tell your son to release the gas pedal and crank like normal, no gas and with a glow cycle. Keep cranking till it catches.

It'll start up and stumble, but smooth out quickly.

Make sure he knows NOT to go below 1/4 tank to avoid ever having this issue again.

vstech · #4 02-28-2014, 08:38 AM

ok, you've likely gotten several parts of this already, but here's the method I use.

1. disconnect all 5 nuts on the injector lines at the injectors.

2. unhook the OUT port on the fuel filter, and plug the hose with your finger.

3. pressurize the fuel tank. I use a shop vac on blow, but you can use compressed air, if you are gentle and keep it below 2 or 3 psi total...

4. when the fuel burps out the top of the filter, stop the air into the tank, and put the return line back on tight.

5. disconnect the glow plugs from the relay.

6. with a fully charged battery, spin the starter until fuel weeps out of all injectors.

stop the starter, and tighten all injector line nuts, then reconnect the glow plugs, give it a normal glow time, and crank the starter with the fuel pedal floored.
it'll caugh and catch, but not quite fully run, so keep on the starter and accelerator until the motor revs high rpms, then let off the starter and enjoy the car...

Maxbumpo · #5 02-28-2014, 08:40 AM

I usually hold the accel. pedal to the floor while cranking, and keep it there until one or two cylinders start to fire off. Loosening up all the hard fuel lines at the injectors is a great idea, and then tighten them up as soon as fuel starts to weep out.

Also plug in the block heater and let that warm the engine for at least thirty minutes prior to your next attempt. Ensure your glow plugs are all working. The warmer you can get the pre-chambers, the easier the fuel will ignite once you do get fuel to the injectors.

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER use starter fluid / ether on a MB diesel; the pre-chamber design is very susceptible to cracking if such is used, and then you have destroyed the engine.

winmutt · #6 02-28-2014, 09:27 AM

Other then cracking the lines a slow starter/low battery can always prevent a start. How many V is the battery showing?

CarpeDiem51392 · #7 02-28-2014, 10:06 AM

Not to be that guy and if you're happy and satisfied then ignore me; but $300 seems excessive for what probably amounted to <20mins of work with no new parts.

barry12345 · #8 02-28-2014, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarpeDiem51392

Not to be that guy and if you're happy and satisfied then ignore me; but $300 seems excessive for what probably amounted to <20mins of work with no new parts.

One does get a little concerned over the costs of some of the repair bills for minor things being done quoted on site. I know customers are the profit centre . Abuse of this though seems rampant in far too many cases.

The guys are paying for either lack of knowledge or just getting the all too often standard treatment.

Diesel911 · #9 02-28-2014, 11:43 AM

It saves Money to be a member of one of the Auto Clubs or have Insurance that provides towing.
2 nights ago My Wife (drives the Mercedes) found a Flat tire. Called AAA and the Tow Guy was unable to find the Lug Wrench and the Car ended up being towed Home for free.

There is also a Fuel Supply/Lift Pump rebuild kit available and one of Our Members has a DIY on rebuilding it.
DIY Repair Links
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/forumdisplay.php?f=82
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/DoItYourSelf

Rustyh · #10 02-28-2014, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

Other then cracking the lines a slow starter/low battery can always prevent a start. How many V is the battery showing?

12.4 I believe

Rustyh · #11 02-28-2014, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarpeDiem51392

Not to be that guy and if you're happy and satisfied then ignore me; but $300 seems excessive for what probably amounted to <20mins of work with no new parts.

I agree. The shop that performed the resurrection does good work but is not the regular place we trade. Different city. I am sure we did not get the good customer rate. The tow bill to the regular shop would have been excessive.

I am sort of the guy that tries to manage these things myself. I have driven MB diesels since 75 and have done a great amount of stuff that has been both good and not so good.

This one is going to be one of those challenges that WE WILL OVERCOME!

Rustyh · #12 02-28-2014, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

It saves Money to be a member of one of the Auto Clubs or have Insurance that provides towing.
2 nights ago My Wife (drives the Mercedes) found a Flat tire. Called AAA and the Tow Guy was unable to find the Lug Wrench and the Car ended up being towed Home for free.

There is also a Fuel Supply/Lift Pump rebuild kit available and one of Our Members has a DIY on rebuilding it.
DIY Repair Links
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/forumdisplay.php?f=82
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/DoItYourSelf

Thanks for the links. I will research these.

We used to be gold members of AAA of the Carolina's. We were kicked out after an incident in Atlanta where a tow truck driver charged AAA 58 miles to a garage and 150 miles back home for a 5 mile tow job. Of course we were not given a chance to plead the case. I did receive a nice call from someone when they kicked us out. They were actually very nice and communicative. That is when I learned about the fraudulent charges. But it was too late. ugh
Today I have a chain and a pipe for most challenges that are close to home. As a side note we have had 3 tows for the MB's in the family 1 for the Chevy van and 4 for the Jeep over 15 years.

Rustyh · #13 02-28-2014, 02:50 PM

The saga continues................

With all the good ideas that have been given my son and I confidently marched out to the car today during lunch break. We have a cold day at 39 degrees but clear skies and sunny. We had a collection of appropriate tools and a print out of the discussion thread.

We checked for fuel flow to the pre filter and made sure the main filter was full. We cracked the collar of the injectors and applied a few psi pressure to the fuel tank.

Starter turned over but no drips from injector connections. Short crank, no more than 10 to 15 seconds. Tried again a few times. No luck so far. Then the starter threw up and the relay made an awful flutter sound and then nothing. Ugh.

I hate removing starters from under these small cars.

We have a good shop here for rebuilds so we will set out later next week and remove the starter to have it checked and rebuilt as necessary.

I thank you all for the advice so far and hope to report back in the near future a successful starting of the engine.

Funny thing is that I have a 78 300d sitting in a field. Every year or so I will start it up and run it a bit. No problems no matter how long it sits. Actually starts well. Moral of story is don't let your diesel run dry.

Rusty

winmutt · #14 02-28-2014, 03:22 PM

Looks like you found the problem

Mxfrank · #15 02-28-2014, 08:24 PM

Sounds like the battery went dead, not the starter. Put a charger on it for a good long while, it's a big battery.