Wvo "gum" in IP - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ah-kay · #16 04-14-2014, 01:26 AM

I have not seen the car nor have I opened up the IP so I do not know what is inside. It seems your car is running fine apart from the gunk on top of the filter housing, so why the IP is suspect?

The following are facts.

1) Ploymerisation needs air
2) There is no air between IP to the injectors unless the hardlines had been opened up to the atmosphere for long period of time when the car was down. I mean weeks or months.

So draw your own conclusion on the gunk. Enjoy the car and just change both filters often. It does not matter what kind of fuel you use.

cooljjay · #17 04-14-2014, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

What makes you to come to this conclusion? You seem to imply cars in the JY are ruined by WVO? 90+% of JY cars have never seen a day of WVO.

I am not implying every car in the JY is ruined by vo.....I am implying that ever so called greenie....who had the brilliant idea of dumping frier grease in the fuel tank have ruined the cars....and people who are looking to buy a diesel stay far far away from those cars....are they are ruined and will give the new owner tons of misery...

I will never forget the black tar that was in my car car from vo....it is still embedded on the engine block and bay...

JB3 · #18 04-14-2014, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Please explain this in detail.
I tough it was reasonably well know that WVO has more Acid, Water and unknown crap in it. How does that be come a better Lubricant.

Then there is the fact the even heated WVO is still thicker than Diesel Fuel. The Elements in the Fuel Injection are lubricated by the Fuel. If the Fuel is not thin enough to get between the Plunger and Barrel of the Element to lubricate it well.

End, then WVO is noted for occasionally killing a Fuel Injection Pump and Diesel Fuel is not noted for that.

Fyi, ULSD is notoriously well known for damaging fuel lubricated rotary injection pumps that were designed prior to the intro of the newer fuel. I have replace 5 or 6 early 6.2, 6.5 chevy pums, as well as 6.9 and 7.3 early pumps in fords, that were experiencing wholly fuel related wear problems. You can see the galling when the pump is apart.

VO does not do that, nor is the bogeyman of "acid content" a concern for the most part. What it does do, is build up like plaque if theres an air problem or if people are horribly undisciplined on flushing it out of the fuel system hot.

Personally, i have never seen a picture of or heard from a single person who has done it, a single rubber seal eaten away from vo usage. Gummed up equipment from polymerization? Sure.
Do an experiment, fry some chicken, strain the fyrer oil, and toss a bunch of rubber seals and metal parts in there. Leave it for a month. Apart fro having to chip the parts out of the rubber cement, these parts will be fine

JB3 · #19 04-14-2014, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

I am not implying every car in the JY is ruined by vo.....I am implying that ever so called greenie....who had the brilliant idea of dumping frier grease in the fuel tank have ruined the cars....and people who are looking to buy a diesel stay far far away from those cars....are they are ruined and will give the new owner tons of misery...

I will never forget the black tar that was in my car car from vo....it is still embedded on the engine block and bay...

It can be done properly and improperly. You bought a car where someone did it improperly.

Its all about discipline, my experience is that 7 out of 10 vo people do not understand how to do it long term, and apply inadequate heat and operating start up and shut down discipline.

On the other hand, there are those people who can get hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles and the car runs better than it ever did when they are done.

My wifes 300TD saw 75k on VO, and runs better than most 617s ive owned, definitely the most poweful out of the ones ive had. The po had a great well conceived 2 tank system and good filtration procedure.

I agree with you partially, but to paint with the same brush for everyone is not entirely accurate. It only takes a few bozos to give everyone a bad name

vtmbz · #20 04-14-2014, 08:48 AM

If the car runs currently and you are switched over to ULSD, then "drive it like you stole it" and in time it will smooth out, in my experience. Focus on cleaning up the fuel system upstream of the IP, and dont tear it down more than you have to to get clean fuel through it. Once you can get 70 mph out of it reliably, a nice 3 hour run will perk it up.

All the WVO posters make a good point, that is obvious to long time readers here: most WVO users haven't got the stuff it takes to produce good fuel; its why we let refineries do it for us! Its not the WVO, its the users.

Maxbumpo · #21 04-14-2014, 09:03 AM

Best of both worlds: Run straight or high percentage biodiesel, purchased from a pump at a legitimate seller (read: fuel meets ASTM specs for commercial biodiesel).

Biodiesel WILL clean out your fuel system from stem to stern, so have plenty of spare fuel filters on hand and the tools to change them anywhere (wouldn't be a bad idea to have some #2 diesel in a small container to fill the big filter when you change that).

Biodiesel will also provide lubricity, if that is your concern. Not my concern, I use pump #2 ULSD exclusively, have for years, no issues that I can detect...

junker68 · #22 04-14-2014, 10:14 AM

I can give my "layman" experience with WVO.

I bought my 1974 240d from Manhattan College's Engineering Dept. about a year and 1/2 ago.

The car was formerly a Dean's car and once he did not want it, the Engineering Dept., adopted it and turned it into a WVO vehicle.

When I bought it, it had about 97,000 miles on it.

Drove great for a month or so, then slowly notice it was getting "bogged down" and there was a loss of power. Then it got to the point where I couldn't go a mile before it would "die" as a result of fuel starvation.

Anyway with the help of everyone on this board I went to work.

I removed the WVO kit.

I had to clean the tank, fuel lines and rebuild the lift pump. All of these items were disgusting and filled with cr&p.

Now the car runs great, no blow by, I have to add a quart of oil maybe every 1,000 miles or so. No issues whatsover.

I believe the WVO was installed properly, but the "fuel" used was not filtered properly.

I do not believe any further damage was done other than what I described above.

I believe WVO can be great if done properly and filtering it is adhered to with much attention.

My two cents...

Bottom line, I would be VERY cautious if I bought another WVO car, unless I was convinced that the PO was meticulous regarding the install and filtering of the WVO.

Dwayne

funola · #23 04-14-2014, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

.......

My wifes 300TD saw 75k on VO, and runs better than most 617s ive owned, definitely the most poweful out of the ones ive had. The po had a great well conceived 2 tank system and good filtration procedure.

...............................

I'd be interested to hear more about his "well conceived 2 tank system and good filtration procedure".

From all I've read, some people have no problems and some have lot's of problems. There are so many variables involved in running WVO and I have to agree the biggest denominator is the proper preparation of the fuel itself.

funola · #24 04-14-2014, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

Some may disagree with me...

But you have to come to the conclusion the car is ruined, even if you manage to get it back to driving standards you will have issues with the car..

The car is like mine, the po had no idea what they were doing with vo...

It took me a ton of time, money and three years to get my car into what I call reliable again....even after all these years, I still burn a quart of oil every 150 miles...

A quart of oil every 150 miles? That really adds to the operating cost.

Diesel911 · #25 04-14-2014, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junker68

I can give my "layman" experience with WVO.

I bought my 1974 240d from Manhattan College's Engineering Dept. about a year and 1/2 ago.

The car was formerly a Dean's car and once he did not want it, the Engineering Dept., adopted it and turned it into a WVO vehicle.

When I bought it, it had about 97,000 miles on it.

Drove great for a month or so, then slowly notice it was getting "bogged down" and there was a loss of power. Then it got to the point where I couldn't go a mile before it would "die" as a result of fuel starvation.

Then there as after the Car is shut (WVO no longer getting heated) off and sit’s the stuff all the way from the Tank to the Fuel Injection pump wants to congeal and that is if you took the time to flush out the Fuel Injection Pump with Diesel Fuel before you shut the Engine down.
If you did not flush out the Fuel Injection pump the stuff also congeals inside if the Fuel Injection pump housing.

Anyway with the help of everyone on this board I went to work.

I removed the WVO kit.

I had to clean the tank, fuel lines and rebuild the lift pump. All of these items were disgusting and filled with cr&p.

Now the car runs great, no blow by, I have to add a quart of oil maybe every 1,000 miles or so. No issues whatsover.

I believe the WVO was installed properly, but the "fuel" used was not filtered properly.

I do not believe any further damage was done other than what I described above.

I believe WVO can be great if done properly and filtering it is adhered to with much attention.

My two cents...

Bottom line, I would be VERY cautious if I bought another WVO car, unless I was convinced that the PO was meticulous regarding the install and filtering of the WVO.

Dwayne

If the Engineering Department of a University cannot come up with a good WVO setup what can us Mortals do???

Filtration is one thing but what if after filtration the suff still wants to stick together and form gunk.

Then there as after the Car is shut off and sit’s the stuff all the way from the Tank to the Fuel Injection pump wants to congeal and that is if you took the time to flush out the Fuel Injection Pump with Diesel Fuel before you shut the Engine down.

If you did not flush out the Fuel Injection pump the stuff also congeals inside if the Fuel Injection pump housing.

One would think that making Biodiesel might have been a better Engineering Project. That way anything the University owned that used Diesel Fuel could have benifited from it.

Diesel911 · #26 04-14-2014, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

Do NOT need to do anything. WVO polymerizes when it meets air. There is no air inside the IP or else the car will not run. WVO lubricates IP better than diesel and there is no gunk inside the IP. The gunk you see on top of the filter housing is caused by polymerization of previous leaks. WVO dissolves rubber, albeit very slowly, so the o-ring on the filter housing may be compromised, so check for leak and replace if necessary. In fact, all rubber parts are compromised by the WVO but it will not manifest itself for a long long time. So do not worry.

Run 1 tank of diesel #2 to clean up any residual WVO in the system. Or fix any leaks and keep running WVO.

But, the WVO is exposed to Air inside of the Fuel Tank by way of the Fuel Tank Vent.

Diesel911 · #27 04-14-2014, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Dip your left hand in diesel and your right hand in vegetable oil and try to turn a doorknob. Now tell me which has better lubrication property.

That comment lacks Science.

Do the same with Motor Oil and then Grease. You will also find that Grease is more slippery on a Door Know then Motor Oil. Or do the same with Motor Oil and STP.

Do you plan to drain out the Engine Oil and fill your Crankcase with Grease or STP???

If the Lubricant is too thick to reach where it needs to go it is not going to lubricate well.
That is only one of the reason there is different Lubricants for different jobs.

Diesel911 · #28 04-14-2014, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

X2

I agree with everything in the above post.

VO at 160 degrees F is the same viscosity at diesel.

VO does not kill IP's. Water kills IP's. Water can be found in VO that is not properly prepared as fuel. Properly prepared VO has no more water in it than diesel.

People who do not properly prepare their VO as fuel and/or use it in a poorly designed system, give VO a bad name by ruining their car. Others have run 100's of thousands of miles on VO. The weak link in the system is usually the user.

VO is not the same as WVO (which can be a mix of a lot of things including Animal Fat).
When the Car is shut down for the Night what keeps the VO heated to 160 degrees so it does not congeal in the Fuel Supply Lines or where ever it happens to be in the system?

Viscosity is not the whole story. Diesel Fuel is purposly made to do a specific Job. VO or WVO was not purosely made to do that job (Fuel to burn in the Engine) so I do not believe it can do it as well.
I can only say that in normal use good clean Diesel Fuel is never going to Kill a MW type Fuel Injection Pump, never.
It won't stop your Fuel Supply Lift Pump from working either.

JB3 · #29 04-14-2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

Best of both worlds: Run straight or high percentage biodiesel, purchased from a pump at a legitimate seller (read: fuel meets ASTM specs for commercial biodiesel).

Biodiesel WILL clean out your fuel system from stem to stern, so have plenty of spare fuel filters on hand and the tools to change them anywhere (wouldn't be a bad idea to have some #2 diesel in a small container to fill the big filter when you change that).

Biodiesel will also provide lubricity, if that is your concern. Not my concern, I use pump #2 ULSD exclusively, have for years, no issues that I can detect...

thats why I love older benz diesel and their motor oil lubricated in line injection pumps. Indestructible.

Buddy of mine is coming up on needing his 4th injection pump on his 94 7.3. hes getting more mileage putting in fuel additive, but every couple of years it seems hes got the same wear problems in his injection pumps.

Fortunately on that year they are both cheap and easy to install

JB3 · #30 04-14-2014, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

I'd be interested to hear more about his "well conceived 2 tank system and good filtration procedure".

From all I've read, some people have no problems and some have lot's of problems. There are so many variables involved in running WVO and I have to agree the biggest denominator is the proper preparation of the fuel itself.

Its pretty similar to your setups, though really the guy is meticulous about start ups and shut downs clearing the engine of vo. Hes got some kind of modified collection of parts from different systems.

His oil storage setup is all gravity filtration, and its extremely clean. I did not even notice a 250 gallon tote up near the ceiling and a fuel pump, there were none of the customary huge spills and mess, no smell, ect. Pretty slick arrangement IMO