OM602 300D Noise, Valve train? Listen and help - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

16vjohn · #1 01-06-2015, 08:58 PM

Hey all, my 300D just started making some noise in the top end, I'm hoping my crappy video will aid in diagnostic. It started with a light "ting-ting-ting". Sounds almost like an injector nailing. I didn't really think anything of it until tonight I heard something that didn't sound quite right at a certain engine RPM. I could be hearing things where there is no issue, but I don't really fancy destroying the engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqqA3Ac8NFc

Starting at 0:10, you can hear the "rattle". It sounds like it's coming from under the valve cover near cylinder 4. Almost like a resonance or something. It can be heard on and off again from 0:17 - 0:24. The ting noise can be heard pretty clearly starting at 0:39.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance for the replies.

compress ignite · #2 01-07-2015, 12:38 AM

Seriously,though...

"The Kinda Tinny Click -ing noise ?"

1.'Nothing's Loose in the E.C. ? [Always,the optimist. Wishful thinking.]

"Given My current Night Terrors as a 602.962 owner" [See Below]

2.How old is your Vacuum Pump?
If it's O.E. @ 134K I'd put a Mechanics stethoscope on it First thing !
Second would be to Pull the Pump and Look.

Even though the Pump I pulled off my first OM602 was still good @ 185K

We've pretty much figured out, collectively, that every 100K. It's a maintenance Item.

dieselbenz1 · #3 01-07-2015, 08:39 AM

Is the engine cold or warmed up when this noise is present or both?
Do you know the history of this car?
Did you check the belt and tensioner?
A stethoscope would sure assist you.
Does not sound like nailing or close to it but rather like something is loose.
Vacuum pumps are a sound investment for the 602.

vstech · #4 01-07-2015, 09:20 AM

... first thing I'd do is fix that exhaust noise!!!

wow, your motor is loud! I do hear it, how old is the oil in your car? ya might wanna put in some fresh mobil1 5w40 and see if it clears up.

16vjohn · #5 01-07-2015, 12:17 PM

"Given My current Night Terrors as a 602.962 owner"

Lol

Thank you all for the replies. I replaced the vacuum pump when I first bought it with a new Pierburg. The engine oil is new 5-40 Rotella. This was taken after a long drive at operating temperature, I haven't heard it when cold, but I haven't listened for it at that time. I'll try it on today's cold start. I'll run out to Sears today and buy a stethoscope, that's a good idea to check the belt and tensioner.

16vjohn · #6 01-07-2015, 09:14 PM

I acquired a stethoscope today, I probably spent 30 minutes under the hood with the engine running trying to pinpoint it. I can rule out injectors and injector pump. I can rule out the tensioner (removed serp belt and ran engine briefly, vibration noise still there) The ting noise is definitely coming from the center area of the engine, the vibration is less clear and sounds like it could be coming from anywhere really. The ting HZ changes with the RPM of the engine, so I still fear for the worst. I'm going to drive it to work for the rest of the week and see if it changes. If anybody doesn't have any other suggestions, looks like I'll be pulling the valve cover this weekend.

16vjohn · #7 01-09-2015, 08:44 PM

Ok, so the tick got a bit worse over the last few days. Not that it got louder, it just ticked more often. I took this video and you can clearly hear the tick coming and going every few seconds. I cracked the injectors to just to truly rule out injection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fztlA_E7lXA

I decided to pull the valve cover and have a look, nothing too serious as the lifters look like they were wearing properly in a circle. No bow tie patterns as far as I could tell. I did notice something weird with the color of the lifters. I took a few high res photos so you can see exactly what they look like. It's almost as if the top layer of metal has slowly been stripped off the top, exposing some other kind of metal below it... copper? I looked everywhere to find worn lifter photos and all the ones I saw never had coloration like this. I also noticed an oval wear pattern on the tips of the lobes.

OM602 veterans, what's your take on this wear and lifter coloration? I think I'll switch from Rotella 5-40 to M1 TDT and see if the tick goes away. I've only put 3k or so on this in the year I've owned it and honestly, I don't care about noises. But when noises appear that weren't there before I get very worried.

HUGE resolution, decided to make them links instead of embedded photos:

Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Photo 4
Photo 5

16vjohn · #8 01-09-2015, 08:53 PM

I wanted to add that I do know most of the history on the car (since somebody asked). I bought it from Seattle doctor that owned it since new. I have over 300 invoices/service records from various MB dealers and indie shops in the PNW area. I have pretty good reason to believe that it was treated properly and maintained properly with correct intervals.

I may look into replacing the lifters for peace of mind.

compress ignite · #9 01-10-2015, 12:54 AM

If you're using the Shell Rotella T Fully Synthetic 5W40, KEEP IT IN THE SUMP!

It's Far Superior to ANYTHING Mobil can offer for that OM602.962 engine !!!

(Mobil switched to the,Inferior, class 3 base stock for ALL it's Lubes,
Years ago ! )

If you want to spend/expend even more money on Lubricating Oil with some
return on your investment: "Red Line" or "Lubro Moly".

_________________________________________________________________

If you'll "Feel Better" about Lube...
Carefully drain the 5W40 Rotella, so you can Strain it through Coffee Filters (5 times) Before re-installing.

AND try a sump full of 15W40 Rotella T Fully Synthetic.

I know you're thinking the noise is Lifters and a different Lube "Might " help.

This will entertain your natural inclination to "Do Something" and at the same time
the Heavier Lubricity Oil will quiet any "Lifter Noise" that could be attributed to them.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

As far as "Records", go all that matters:
1. Is length of Oil Change intervals (In Miles)
2. IS/Was it Diesel Rated Lubricant (I.E. CF 4 is the current rating)
3. Were they installing "Dino" Oil (I.E. Non- Synthetic) or Quality 100% Synthetic ?

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Records are Just Paper...It's what they Say that matters.

I WOULD NOT REPLACE ANY LIFTERS WITHOUT EMPIRICAL PROOF THAT ONE OR MORE ARE BAD !!!

diesel friend · #10 01-10-2015, 06:04 PM

my 1/91 300D with about the mileage makes the same noise, also seems to come from the centre of the cyl. head. Suspect the hydraulic lifters, bought new ones, made by INA, but they are not in the car yet. The PO had the oil changed regularly and most of the time Castrol dino oil was used. At about 120k it became necessary to change cyl. head gasket. New exh. valve guides were also required. Using Rotella T6 in this car.

16vjohn · #11 01-10-2015, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diesel friend

my 1/91 300D with about the mileage makes the same noise, also seems to come from the centre of the cyl. head. Suspect the hydraulic lifters, bought new ones, made by INA, but they are not in the car yet.

Obviously, I'd be very interested to hear the results on this, as it sounds like the same issue. Thank you for the information. As for the oil, I had no idea Shell 5-40 was held in such high regard with these cars. I've trusted it for 10 years on my TDIs, I have no complaints with it.

I'll probably keep driving for the next few weeks and closely monitor changes to the noise. I've got teh valve cover removal mastered now, perhaps I'll remove it after the next tank of diesel and try to check for any scoring lines in the bores. I need to find a way to clean the oil off the lifter surfaces/bores without introducing contaminants.

16vjohn · #12 01-13-2015, 05:12 PM

One last bump and request for comments on this lifter. Anybody ever seen anything like that?

diesel friend · #13 01-13-2015, 08:18 PM

without removing valve cover tried to inspect the lifters and the little bit I could see did not show any visible wear. Some years ago had an American Motors engine with noise lifters. They sounded quite different than the extra noise I hear in your video. To me your higher freq. sound is more like a lose oil shield or deflector.

tjts1 · #14 01-14-2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

See the oval pattern and rounded off shape on the camshaft tip? The tip of the camshaft lobe is worn down probably caused by sticking lifter. To confirm, measure the diameter of the cam lobe with a caliper gauge and compare it to any other cam lobe on the same port of another cyl. Unfortunately you'll have to replace both the lifters and the cam. My 87 om603 has the same problem. Some lobes are much sharper than others. I was lucky because i habe a complete spare head to swap in with cam and lifters.

Look at the intake lobe for cyl #4. Eventually the uneven wear between cyls can cause vibration because some are getting more air than others.
http://i.imgur.com/LG0e025.jpg

16vjohn · #15 01-14-2015, 12:45 PM

My thoughts exactly. Though, I know without measuring that the oval wear patterns were bad. I have no complaints with doing a new cam with the lifters, I have had a hard time finding a new cam, does anybody have any favorite source for a cam for these? Or, perhaps even a part number? I'll go scour the junkyards this weekend, there's usually at least a few of these out there, might just snag a whole head if I can't find a new cam. Anybody have any reservations with the Chinese made cam? I'd REALLY rather not, but looking for ideas at this point.

Edit:

I found the part number on Febi's site. I'll keep looking. 602 050 08 01

Camko? http://www.***********************/sku/Mercedes_Benz/300D/Camko/Camshaft/1990/2-dot-5/5_Cyl_2-dot-5L/W0133-1602100.html