Sure, they could, and perhaps they do!! Between these several threads, though, it seems that there are counterfeit Lemf products out there, so per the original poster's question, I would think he would need to ascertain whether they are actually genuine or not.

For me personally, I would not bother to take the time and energy to do this. I'd just get and use known-quality parts. I'm not much of a gambler, particularly when it comes to safety-related parts like ball joints, brake parts, and so forth.

Again, that's just me. It's a [sort-of] free country!!

Behr, Continental (CRP), Bosch, Lemforder and other brands that were once of iron-clad quality have had noticeable product quality slippage in recent years. Bosch is probably the worst. I have numerous first-and second-hand stories (i.e. I talked to the mechanic) about Bosch stuff being bad right out of the box - a lot of it being made in places like Turkey, Slovenia, India, Poland, etc....not just China.

You REALLY have to be careful out there.

The good thing with Chinese stuff that contains rubber, is that you can usually smell Chinese rubber a mile away. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just walk into a Harbor Freight store, and the smell of Chinese-made "rubber" will just about knock you out. It has a very different smell than US- and European-made rubber products.

I hope you are not using iPhone or other name branded cellphone. They are all made in China, Vietnam or Asian countries. Just look around your dwelling and see how many things are made outside USA. I buy what is fit for the purpose, do not discriminate any countries.

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Indeed, let's not make the Chinese (and the Indians, the Vietnamese, the Slovaks, etc.) into the goats of this piece.

The companies that contract out to these countries have every opportunity to put quality control protocols in place at time of manufacture (inspectors on site, random testing of product pulled off the line, etc.). Likewise, they can monitor quality post-sale and take action based on complaints and premature failures. Automakers buy OE parts on this basis -- they have an acceptable ceiling for failures built into the contract.

If Lemforder, or Meyle, or whomever chose not to, then the fault lies at their door. Do not blame the Chinese for the corporate greed of the company that specs then buys the product.

The Chinese are at least as capable as anyone else, of producing quality products. They produce all manner of products, large and small, from blenders to bullet trains and they are carrying out infrastructure projects in their country that would make your eyes water on the scale alone.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Folks, this is a discussion about aftermarket / branded Mercedes-Benz parts ... not Mercedes-Benz cars, iPhones, or other consumer devices. By introducing such things, you are making apples-to-oranges comparisons.

This is not about discriminating against any one country or region. It's about aftermarket Mercedes-Benz parts, that happen to be made in China and whether they are of good quality as compared to previous parts that were made in Germany.

Again, I repeat .. the precedent -- in multiple instances and with multiple brands -- is not good when companies have moved production from Germany and Western European countries to China and other non-European countries.

I agree with you, particularly with companies who have good quality control processes in place.

The other aspect of this, as painful as it may be for this audience to acknowledge, is that in part, what we see as a quality slip is actually a migration of parts for our old cars, to the standards of parts now being supplied for new cars. At least where longevity is concerned (I am not implying the new cars are full of parts designed to fail prematurely... by new car standards).

A while back, in reading a big feature in Mercedes Magazine where they got a few old-timer Mercedes employees near retirement (assembly guys and mechanics) together and had them drive an oldtimer and a new car (IIRC a w115 and a C Class), they of course said all the nice corporate things, then one made a remark (and full points to the magazine for printing it) along the lines of:

"Of course the new cars are great... but we are replacing parts like bushings at 25k that used to last 100k or more."

__________________


Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Please back it up with facts, articles or whatever you can find in research institutions or internet.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

And it's not about how the parts smell, look, feel or taste. It's about how they wear. And you can't determine that based on anything but test.

In a globalized world, manufacturing is happening wherever it's cheapest. I do this every day, and I promise you that the difference isn't where it's made, it's how the brand manages it's QA process. And yes, there are knock-off manufacturers out there that copy everything, including the name on the box.

FWIW, I also think there has been a design engineering issue with certain manufacturers, which has nothing to do with where and how the parts are made. You're really treading on thin ice when you try to generalize based on the "made in" label.

Well, off the top of my head - I had a Bosch factory reman alternator for my 560SEC go bad about 1 mile after it was professionally installed in my car.

Last year, my indy mechanic had three (yes, THREE) sets of Bosch plug wires for a 300CE (W124) bad, right out of the box. Finally, the fourth set worked.

I had a Continental (CRP) alternator belt fail after less than 5,000 miles after it was installed on my 560SEC. My indy shop has stopped using CRP belts and is using Gates belts, which he feels are of better quality.

Have you seen the "Dang You, URO?" thread here on PP? There are numerous stories of cheap Chinese parts failing from all sorts of members here.

The common factor is your Indy. I have read the thread, all BS. This forum is about problems most of the time by a limited pool of users. There are a lot of success stories by other Indies or stealerships that was never posted. I am done with this thread.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

No, the indy isn't the common denominator. I'm talking about two different indys from when I lived in Portland, OR and Houston, TX. Don't jump to conclusions.

Bosch ignition wires are for the most part crap anymore. They are carbon core and suck. Run into it a lot in the Pagoda world, guys show up with the plugs Bosch specs for their 280SL now, and they are resistor, and they have a crummy set of carbon core wires and can't figure out why the car idles like ****. On old school Bosch wires with a multimeter you can test the 3 parts of every wire and replace just what is bad. That's often what I've done.

For stuff like alternators I have a local electric shop rebuild my originals. He uses German made parts whenever possible and he won't rebuild a auto parts store reman, only original Bosch stuff.

CRP belts I've not had an issue with.

On the Behr front there is Behr, and Behr service. Behr service is made in china usually, Behr generally is not. On a friends 530i the Behr service expansion tank simply would not fit the car, returned it, got a Behr unit that had been made somewhere in the eastern block, looked, fit, felt, smelled, and tasted like BMW intended.

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68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500

Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i

With my new 190E I have found a few cheapo parts.

First was a URO distributor cap cover. Total crap. It didn't look old but the plastic had just disintegrated from the heat of the engine.

Next was a Meyle thermostat. Didn't look too old, but it wasn't opening until about 98C instead of 87C.

Next was tie rods. No brand on them and they looked not too old but all of the boots were completely split.

Lastly was Meyle brake lines. At first I was sorta hesitant and thinking I need to go ahead and replace them but upon further inspection, they seemed to actually be pretty good quality. They were stamped 2009 and has been on the car at least a few years and once cleaned off the brake dust and grime, the rubber looked new. I'll see if they hold up but it seems like they should.

I just ordered about $400 in parts for that car, all of it top brands on here or from my dealer (who runs mymercedesparts.com).


As for Chinese quality vs German quality or American Quality. I have never had a problem with German quality. Chinese quality is hit and miss. American quality is also hit and miss. I have sets of American made tools from about the 70s or so that are about the worst quality I have ever seen, while I have some Chinese tools that are very well made. I bought a set of Craftsman Metric wrenches, a 26 piece set including the normal size wrenches from like 7MM to 22MM them ignition wrenches from like 4MM to 10MM or so, I don't really remember. The regular wrenches were Chinese made while the ignition wrenches were American made. The Chinese wrenches knock the American wrenches out of the park on the quality of the casting and finish.

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Current: 1975 450SEL, 83 300D, 88 Yugo GVX, 90 300D OM603 swap, 91 F150 4.6 4v swap, 93 190E Sportline LE 3.0L M104 swap, 93 190E Sportline LE Megasquirt, 03 Sprinter, 06 E500 4Matic wagon.

Yes, they are a subsidiary of ZF. Not sure when they got married.


If you mean the Uro thread... the failure stories (some VERY impressive, particularly the flex disc explosions) far outweigh the success stories.


Not all Bosch wires are carbon core. The M119 aftermarket Bosch wire set (with the orange plastic ends, and gray wires) are copper (well, non-resistor) core. I have not been impressed with the couple I've encountered, installed by PO's, and personally wouldn't buy a new set. I went to great lengths to build my own replacement wire sets with Beru (Germany) wire, but it was expensive and not fun.


I haven't had issues with Conti belts - yet.


Interesting, I did not realize the two were different.


Exactly. If you can buy a known-German part, odds are very good that it will be a quality part. Some people, myself included, are willing to pay the premium that usually accompanies such parts. However, paying that premium and receiving an "unknown quality" part is not something I enjoy.

Uro is known to be the bottom of the barrel. Meyle is better, but still is significantly below OEM kwality. YMMV, etc. I have always received top-quality stuff in Lemfoerder boxes, but I will be keeping a closer eye on future purchases. Hopefully they will maintain quality control when relocating manufacturing.

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Dave
Boise, ID
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