hi everybody i am a long time reader new member based in northern nevada

o.k i need some help and advice here please

please bare with me i am trying to give details. there is a related post but as usual with forums some clueless explanations and no conclusion

ok so i bought another 1985 mtd w126 ca model turbo diesel om617 5 cyl
for use as a daily and then later a donor in a swap

it was parked unused for several years. the glow plugs were dead and i was / am reluctant to start them on ether starting fluid (i use a diy safer aproach)

so this time i simply cranked the motor just to build a good oil pressure then let it sit then re cranked it let it sit then started it up properly knowing it had oil circulated

it smoked a lot ( expected) white but imediatley idled nicely i drove it back n forth on back roads for maybe 20 miles it drove fine shifted fine and the smoke cleared.oil pressure was fine temp was at normal. it was sluggish off the mark but i put that down to filters and smog bs and a high ratio and auto box in a heavy w126

however it did have an intermittant ocasional tinkling rattle somewhere if you really listened which sounded like a loose bolt or something in the tc but nothing significant or with any clockwork rhythm. oil pressure was fine litterally like a bolt vibrating around on a tin tray ocasionaly

i brought it home ( trailer) and began to make plans for it ocasionaly starting it and noticed that this intermittant rattle would sometimes sound like a tinkling noise and sometimes not exist and sometimes sound more like a grating grinding noise similar to a very bad water pump or alternator bearing but i could not isolate the noise. oil pressure was fine. switch off re start
it starts right up ( temp not even off cold) and the noise has now vanished.

i attempted to turn the car around so i could test the c.r in my garage before i got too carried away with my ideas . oil pressure is fine and next thing i notice the oil pressure is now suddely just above zero temp is still cold as it wasnt running long. there are no oil leaks

i imediately switched it off there was no noise no bottom end rattles. i recheck oil level and its in the safe area so i add some but knowing it probably wont affect anything.
but even if i just try cranking it ( short bursts) it wont make oil pressure.
and now i am reluctant to do a c.r test by cranking in this condition.

so.......

i am thinking its got to be an oil pump / delivery issue and maybe that was related to the intermittant noise? BUT

is this an easy fix? drop the sump and swap in another pump or drive shaft???
( never had one apart to know)

do i carry on and adjsut valves if needed and do a cr test anyway?

or should i simply pull anything usefull off the engine (what?) and part out the car or sell as is to an enthusiast explaining the issue?

i have a few projects and dont need to be going backwards right now
the car is rust free very straight and nice interior

usefull helpfull replies are very welcome. i am sure this must have happened to others?

thankyou for reading and i hope i can repay the advise sometime

You did not mention changing the Oil and filter and I am not sure why but most people insist on running the Engine with the "parked unused for several years" Oil in them.
It could simply be the cruddy Oil plugged the Oil Filter.

If it was me I would change the Oil, Filter and replace the 2 O-rings at the bottom of the Oil Filter Cap Tube/Stem.
I have never attempted to access it but inside of the Oil Filter Tube/Stem is a spring loaded Valve. If that valve sticks open the Oil you lose Oil Pressure and the Oil dumps back into the Oil Pan.

If you want you can drop the small Oil Pan and check the Oil Pump Druve Chain Tensioner and the Little Snap Ring that holds the Tensioner She on. The little Snap Ring wears as the Shoe is right up against it.

I have never done it but you might also pull out the Oil Pump Relief Valve and the Spring and see if there is issues there. However, the Oil Pump on the 617 Turbo Diesels seldom is the source of trouble. On the non-turbo ones that is a different story.

Someone may have an adapter to check the Oil Pressure with another Test Gauge. When I did that I drilled an 1/8" Pipe tapped hole in the lid of the Oil Filter Cap. If you decide to do that be sure to look under the Cap as there cast ribs and you need to avoid drilling through a rib.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Or it could simply be a problem with the Oil Pressure Sending Unit.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

hi there

thankyou for taking the time to try and help. however i cant see any relation with the noise if its a case of not changing the oil. and it had plenty of pressure and drove and ran just fine so im not sure where it got clogged up (unless the noise was a broken/loose part which now is blocking something)

of course i would be doing a full filter and fluid service if i kept it but i wasnt about to do that in the p.o,s driveway before i bought it!

so lets assume for the moment it could be this tensioner shoe snap ring issue or pump related.

is it an easy and low cost job to replace these parts even if i get used items from somewhere?

is it safe to carry out a c.r test before i even look at this oil issue?

as i said there is a similar post on here but it went dead and no explanation was found

thanks again

Pull the valve cover, tie down the "stop" lever so the engine won't start, and have your lovely assistant crank the engine for ten or fifteen seconds. If you get oil from the feeder tube over the valve rockers, then you know you've got a sender / gauge problem. You may even be able to see the oil through the oil fill cap opening? However, you must pull the valve cover to adjust the valves, which is really required before you do the compression test in order to ensure the compression test results are valid.

I don't understand why you think you need to do a compression test. The best compression test is "does the engine start in cold weather". You said it ran and idled smoothly, so you know the compression is more or less even across the cylinders.

In my opinion, you may have an issue with the oil pump. I hope it is something simple/cheap...

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

my c.r test is not related to the oil pressure or noise issue i was simply by coincidence going to do the c.r test before i removed the engine when i discovered this other issue

the idea was to check it before i go buying glow plugs filters oil belts etc and pull the engine to do a swap

no it wont start easy from cold because all the gp are dead... hence the c.r test
but now i have this odd oil issue

and i diddnt want to mess with it if the oil issue is a known,common big deal

When you find out what the cause of the loss of Oil pressure is please post it.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Oil pressure is normally very good on the 617 motors. The bottom end is the least of your worries usually.

First determine somehow that your gauge is or is not working. If it is not the gauge then I would begin to become concerned. I had a 617 which had a spun bearing (from installing it too tight in a botched rebuild done when the PO had the car). The bearing would spin around and sometimes cover the oil hole and sometimes flow good volume. I don't know if a spun bearing would do what you have or not but it seems possible.

The oil pump is driven by a chain down off the nose of the crank and they can fail with catastrophic results. I don't think they would work intermittently if badly worn though.

I won't say dirty oil couldn't plug your filter but it does not seem likely to me. We are all searching here with the information available.

Someone suggested replacing the sending unit with a mechanical gauge, and that seems a good idea for a starting point.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

The oil filter is supposed to have a built-in bypass, so that if it becomes plugged, the bypass will open and then engine won't be destroyed by lack of oil.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

.

not to discourage you,..but over here we have a diesel rule..if the engine was not driven or just turned occasionally, for several years that engine is considered as bad. thin rust formed layers will be main suspect for it which will
give you exactly the thing you have..no oil pressure,but not in due clogging but
making factory gaps too wide in several areas....cylinders and crankshaft included....

lets hope that I misdiagnose your issue...if gauge and sensor are ok
2 things can be the cause ... too thin or too wide oil passage

my bet is unfortunately on wide so the pressure can not be formed

.

__________________
w126 500SEC gen II euro, powered by OM617 turbo stolen from 84 300SD 2.88 diff,EGR blinded
next wish/project: w114 coupe OM603 powered

thankyou for all your continued help and advice

however nobody has really considered or read properly the intermittant noise that would be a light ocasional ,,tinkle,, to a grating noise( when started another time) like a really bad water pump then switch off re start and theres now zero noise.

the oil pressure was FINE all the time even just cranking however the noise has now stopped and the oil pressure died! it does have ,,some,, pressure when running but its way low and wont rise when cranking like it did before.

i have dragged diesel engines out from hedgerows laid sideways with all the oil ran out left out in all weathers for years and got them going easily with no internal work and ran them for many years so i am reluctant to buy the ,,its because its been stood,, reason. allthough im not ruling it out.

i also have various diesels i dont use that are stored outside in colder wetter climates elswhere that i will start and move once in a while when i visit by that i meen many months or years and have NEVER had any internal mechanical issues.

in my experience diesel engines internals are a bit like a light bulb they either work or they dont. so if they run and dont smoke constantly with clean fuel and filters etc theyre usually just fine i also know many people will remove an engine that was running just fine
pull it all to bits get out all there measuring equipment ( as theyre an expert!) check everything and declare that its scrap.

i would love to find out the reason so i can let anybody else know who does a search.
the issue is if its worth it when you add up gaskets pumps etc but i will try pulling a pressurized hose or something (turbo?) and see if it pumps out oil or try another gauge .

however i will still need to do a c.r test YES it could need valve adjustments and have a stuck ring or 2 but i will still need to know this before i pull the motor

To answer your question, if it is related to the oil pump, you need to remove the upper oil pan to replace it and the chain, tensioner, etc. The engine will need to be removed for that kind of job.

Typically, a tinking sound while running the car can be related to worn and missing shift lever bushings. Check them and see.

As a start, do some of the other tests these fellas have suggested. If you have negative results with them, drop the oil pan and check the oil pickup; it might be clogged with something.

A compression test is a moot point without proper oil pressure. You probably won't damage the engine by cranking it with the starter, though.

__________________
1991 F250 super-cab 7.3 IDI. (rebuilt by me) Banks Sidewinder turbo, hydroboost brakes, new IP and injectors.
2003 S430 - 107K
1983 300SD - Tanoshii - mostly restored ~400K+.
1983 300SD - Good interior. Engine finally tamed ~250K.
Monark Nozzle Install Video - http://tinyurl.com/ptd2tge

Tie the "stop" lever down on the injection pump. Remove the valve cover, and then crank the engine with the starter. If the oil pump is producing pressure, after 5 - 10 seconds of cranking, you should have oil squirting onto the valve rockers. Then you will know if you should proceed with a valve adjustment (and conveniently you just removed the valve cover!) followed by the compression test.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

There seems to be 3 ways to find out what is wrong with something. Ask someone and hope it is something common to that perticular item that causes the issue and fix or replace that. However, with the exception of a bad Oil Pressure Sending Unity your issue is not common and has no common cause.

The other method is to replace parts and hope that your guess fixes the issue. That is the expensive way to go unless you just get lucky or you problem falls into that catagor of an item the typically falis and is the cause of your particular problem and as you have indicated you are not going to do that.

Then there is troubleshooting. Troublehooting requires that you invest some time to do that and at the same time develop some knowlege to undersand how the system functions to be able to troubleshoot in an orgainized manner.

I know this one is not being considered but the last way is to Pay someone who (hopefully) knows what they are doing to do the work.

I don't think any of the above methods are suitable if you are not willing to expend either Money or time on it.

Personally the Oil pressure issue would be the most important. If you have good compression and little Oil pressure you are not going far.

Things that effect compression.
After the warranty is over people typically do not have the Valve Adjustment done. When the used Car is sold the next owner may not even know the Valves need to be adusted as most Cars have Hydraulic Valve Lifters or simply not want to pay to have someone do it and will run the Car till it has issues caused by the not having the adjustment.
In short not having the Valve adjusted effects the compression.

Sticking Piston Rings are no uncommon especially in an Engine that sat unused for a long time. The happend to My Volvo Diesel after it sat for 1+ years waiting for me to put my Fuel Injection Pump together. That also effects the Compression and in my case caused gray smoke all of the time the Engine was running. Lucky the fix was easy.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

some strange ideas in this thread but did this ever get solved?

OM617, grinding sound, sudden loss of oil pressure and loss of power.