I've seen a situation like that where an arbor that fit perfectly in the bearing's inner race (sounds like 15 mm from your spec) was used in combination with thick grease to form a hydraulic force to move a bearing out of a blind hole like that. Load the bearing's bore with grease insert the arbor onto that and drive the arbor inward. The grease is forced behind the bearing and the bearing has no where to go but back out of the bore.

Might not work with every kind of bearing or with one that is exceptionally tight but it's a pretty clever outside the box solution, I thought. The arbor needs to be tight and long enough to get a good hammer blow to it, and wrap some rag around the arbor to prevent and high velocity grease that might be ejected. Keep adding grease until you can get a grip on it some other way. Snap-On once had a tool with a hook at one end and a handle and place to land hammer blows on the other end, put the hook into the bore or behind the edge of a seal, cock it a bit to get it off center so the hook gets some purchase on the inside edge and then apply some hammer to it, pulling the hooked end out with the bearing or seal.

Jim, I did as 84-300dee mentioned how he did it with his Dremel. There are different types of
bits and cut off wheels they have. Not sure which one I used, might have been one that that is sort of round/pointed like a rasp.
made small cuts not all the way through, then knocked the pieces out with a punch or chisle.

As HappyHappy mentioned with the grease, I forgot I tried that, but didn`t work.
I have done that with my Datsun Diesel getting out the Bronze Pilot Pushing. works real slick.
Cut the threaded part off a Bolt the same size and the inner diameter of the Bushing.
Packed the Bushing with grease, 2 or 3 whacks of a Hammer, the bushing slides out onto the Bolt.

Problem with the MB is the bearing is too large for the hole, and is in there much tighter that the slight friction fit it was designed for
with the 34mm Cranks.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Well that grease trick has been around for a long time, but I don't think it will move one that has been shrunk fitted. At least not without getting a lot of grease back in your face. But really, getting that bearing out is not the problem. At least for me, because there are plenty of buyers around for a really good running engine to be used with the automatic. Hook it up to the automatic and that bearing will just stay in there, nothing to touch it, nothing to move it and it will add about 2 ounces to the weight of the engine.
But I was wondering, looking into the bore of that other engine that I have, wondering if it would be possible to get a 34mm reaming drill for a large slow turning drill and clean out that hole. A reaming bit is usually flat faced and could go right to the bottom. Now that would be a cumbersome and slow moving operation, though it might go faster then I am thinking. Maybe do it in two steps with a 33.5mm and a 34 mm to finish. Well here is a Chinese made tool that will ream to 33.5mm. I would have been a happy camper to get that hole to 33.5mm before I put that bearing in. But, looking at how the tool is made, I would say that the bottom of the hole where the bearing has to sit, can't be enlarged because of the tool design. Well, anyway, just thinking about it. Probably best left to a machine shop when the crank is out of the engine. Perhaps we have a machinist in the Forum who could enlighten us on this problem.

New 29.5 33.5mm Adjustable Reamer High Carbon Steel Blade-in Reamer from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

If I "had to have" a crank bore enlarged like in this situation I would get a large steel bar say 2" X 3" that I could bolt across the rear face of the bell housing, then get a very high quality large bolt or threaded rod section with the finest threads I could find, take the steel to a machinist, get the bar bored and internally threaded to match the bolt threading, then get the threaded end of the bolt turned down to slightly under the crank bore ID, have a shelf machined into the turned down bolt end so that an indexable carbide insert can be attached by clamping to that.

Bolt the steel bar across the bell housing while getting the threaded bolt/rod positioned correctly( the nose of the threaded bolt centered perfectly in the crank bore. Then adjust the carbide insert will make the cut you need(small increments) start the engine and with the crank turning advance the carbide insert attached to the threaded bolt into the crank bore cutting the material of the bores ID enough to get the overall 35 mm you want. Crank might be hardened but make light cuts with a good insert it should still be doable. I'd get a little electric pump and circulate some cutting fluid into the bore/cutter area to keep the heat from the cutting in check. Make a cut, pull and reposition the insert to advance the depth of its cutting and then run it back into the rotating crank bore until its enlarged enough.

That would essentially turn the engine into a lathe and a work piece with you supplying only the cutting tool and its guidance. You'd probably need some kind of long wrench or two to keep the advancing cutter edge from spinning to far and fast from the friction generated by the cut, but light cuts would make that more manageable.



shelf.

I found that the GM pilot bearings from the late 80s early 90s for things like S10s, is exactly the same ID of the benz input shaft, and a smaller OD. You could maybe create a sleeve to slip in something like that

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

That is a great idea JP3. I have a connection with a machine shop training school, and I am getting that bearing ( Timken 203 FF) and I think that would be a better solution then freeze shrinking the bearing as I did. No way would I try grinding the outside of the bearing to fit. But it looks to me that a steel ring of about 1/10th of an inch in thickness machined to fit the bearing OD very tight but yet capable of being forced on could be very effective. Bearing OD is 1.093 and crank hole bore is 33mm or 1.300 so we have .207 inch to be made up, which would be .103 thickness for the band. Not to hard to do and I am going to work on it. The real figures will have to be determined by further measurement of the bearing and the bore in the crank, but the above figures are close enough to talk about. The piece should quite easily be turned out of a piece of thick wall one and half inch pipe.

__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

That's a great piece of info! I was surprised to find that there is no listed 34mm OD bearing that would do the job. I spent quite a bit of time at our local bearing supplier going thru their catalog but no luck. With the right input shaft ID and an adaptor ring that would make a clean set-up for sure and a good machinist can dial in a proper press fit (it needs a little and a few phone calls would yield that number).

Dan

I used a hone to widen the crankshaft pilot bearing bore. I just honed it a little at a time until the bearing went in snugly. I used an old one to beat on while testing the size. The only issue was when the bearing finally fit, the outer portion of the bearing hole had become slightly tapered so it was larger than the inner part where the bearing fitted. I had to notch the grease cap and use bearing race lock-tite to get the grease cap secure. At least now it has a standard size bearing.
As far as noises go it definitely has the rattle with the clutch out in neutral but that is another issue.

__________________

Chris
84 280sl
82 300d euro

Read this old thread where Tomj was making an adaptor to get the Pilot baring to fit his 85 Crank.
Need Help - Tranny Swap to Manual


In another thread (can`t find it now) he mentioned it started to spin.

EDIT:

Found it. Too bad the pictures are long gone.
Entertaining Pics...


Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

The above post I posted where TOMJ made a sleeve to install the bearing in the Crank hole.
Then later it spun on him. The link has pictures but not there anymore.

I did find a picture from a different thread he did of the sleeve/bearing




bearing9.jpg (1 of 5) 01-07-2010 05:41 PM
522 × 266 - peachparts.com



Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Reread back through this thread this morning.

I think if I have to replace the Pilot Bearing in another 85 engine or have to redo the one in my present engine,
Iam going to have a Bronze Oil-Lite bearing machined to fit.

MB used the ball bearings for the pilot bearing in a lot of old manual trans
cars for many years and it worked good.
Note: Haven`t taken one apart, (side cover) but assume MB did not use needle bearings.

The problem is trying to rework, freeze, hone out the Crank hole etc... to get the bearing to properly align with the end of the trans shaft.
if it is not aligned up perfectly, I believe the transmission could have damage long term with the input shaft bearing etc...

Freezing one, then when it warms back up, it will be tight and squeeze down of the bearings.

I mentioned above my 82 Datsun KC PU with the Nissan SD-22 Diesel engine uses a Bronze bushing instead of a bearing.
I replaced it a couple times over the 483K miles I drove her w/o any problems.
Many manufactures also use a bushing.

I did some searching in Google and some interesting reading bearing vs bushing.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=clutch+pilot+bushing+vs+bearing&btnK=Google+Search

https://www.google.com/search?q=clutch+pilot+bushing+vs+bearing&biw=1093&bih=520&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmlJyAmfXKAhVK5iYKHXBLCVoQ_AUIBygC&dpr=1.25


Before we ground down the bearing to fit my 85 Crank, I was seriously considering buying a piece of
Bronze Oil Lite bar stock and have a Bushing made.

The picture I posed in the above post of the sleeve that TOMJ made,
the problem I believe is a steel Crank, and a steel Bearing sandwiched between a bronze sleeve.
They heat up a different temps, and the tight fit is compromised.


Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

I didn't read the entire thread.

A ball bearing will last much longer than a bronze one.

If the ball hearing is too tight a fit into the crank, the outer race will shrink reducing bearing life. If it is very tight, it can lock and the input shaft will spin in the inner race.

I tried freezing mine and heating the crank with a heat gun to see if I could get a 35mm bearing into a 34mm hole. The answer is "Maybe - with a big enough hammer". There IS a small issue, though - you'll force the ID of the bearing to a smaller size so the input shaft would have to be forced into the bearing creating too little internal bearing clearance. Not good. I agree with Charlie that a sintered bronze bushing would work just fine. It might fail somewhat earlier than a roller bearing but both will hold up a LONG time. Remember that most auto makers in the world have used a bushing in there for decades with satisfactory durability. So for me, any future issue with this would be resolved with either a bronze bushing or by having the OD of the bearing ground down to 34mm.

Dan

After reading some of the posts here, would like to add some comments from my experience.

Putting a 35mm bearing in a 34mm hole is an extreme fit, and probably is deforming the end of the crank, besides collapsing the bearing race. I'm impressed that any one managed to accomplish this feat. A normal press fit would be closer to .001" in this size, rather then the .0197" interference fit that is actually being accomplished here. A standard shrink fit would be .0025".

A general machine shop should be able to grind down the OD of a 35mm bearing if they have a cylindrical grinder or a tool post for a lathe. It would be cheaper if everyone that wanted a bearing ground down got together and did it at the same time to save set up costs. General machine shops that can do this are getting harder to find. My only reservation on doing this is whether or not the outer race of the bearing has enough material to stand taking .02" off the diameter. I suspect they do, but do not have a bearing to measure.

If anyone wishes to put a bronze bushing in place of the ball bearing, I would suggest using SAE 660 bronze over a sintered bronze bearing. The sintered bearings are cheaper for production applications, but in my opinion, 660 bronze bearings are a over all superior bearing. If doing this, I would put as much grease in the bottom of the hole as I could when assembling the engine and tranny.

Fwiw.


Regards,

W.

I agree with Walter EXCEPT - you can't be too liberal with the grease. It'll get hot and centrifical (SP?) force will spread the grease across the clutch face - not good (this is a lesson learned the hard way). I'm not sure on the 660 but with sintered bronze you can heat the bushing and soak it in grease which will penetrate and "fill" the bearing material. At one point you could buy pre-lubed sintered bronze but I don't know if that's still available.

But basically Walter's got the concept!

Dan