New Oil line seeping
 

I took my W123 for another little drive yesterday. Came back home, had it idle and popped the hood, just to admire the beauty that is the OM617 happily clacking away...

And I was shocked when I checked my new oil lines. The lower one is seeping. Right where the rubber meets the metal collar it is seeping oil.

The line was made by Trucktec. The upper line is made by Cohline, and is fine.

There is no other brand available from Pelican Parts for the lower oil line.

I am so mad, angry and disappointed right now. Getting those lines changed was quite a horrible job, and I was so happy when I got it done. And now I need to buy a new line somewhere and do this awful job all over...Again!?

Part of me just wants to live with the seeping line. I don't care about the oil leak. My W123 leaks oil from so many places that I stopped caring about the stains in my garage...:rolleyes:

However, part of me is very afraid this line is going to blow at some point. Anyone else that has a Trucktec line on their car that is seeping?

I'm going to contact Pelican Parts, see if they can be a little lenient and maybe provide some kind of a refund. I've ordered all my parts from here, so I'm hoping I'm a customer in good standing. But ugh, SO FRUSTRATED RIGHT NOW...:(:sad2:

EDIT:
As extra information: I changed the lines 2 months ago, but couldn't drive the car right away since the carrier bearing and flex discs on the drive line were shot.
I changed those out last week, and was hoping I could actually drive the car now.

I noticed the seeping right away after I changed the lines and ran the car at idle for a bit after I changed the oil & filter, but at the time I thought it was just oil running down the lines from me touching it everywhere with my oily hands when I put it in.
Now that I've driven the car a few times it's clear that the oil line is seeping.

I had the exact same thing. Fortunately, the problem was the fitting on the oil cooler itself had a hair line crack in the female part where the ball of the line seats. Diagnosis involves removing that end of the line and taking a really close look. You may have to remove the cooler to get a good enough view.

You have 2 choices if that is the issue.

1) source another cooler either new or used and install or

2) find a replacement fitting. There is info on line re the number for the repair part. You will have to cut off the old fitting then drill and tap the hole. The drill and tap are relatively expensive for a 1x use so consider that in your calculations.

Others have said that the required fitting is the same that's used on the oil filter housing and a yard may be a source. Of course, you need to go to the yard, find and remove the fitting which may be more of a pita than it is worth.

Edit: I just re-read your post. If the line itself is leaking, replace it. I remember reading that the top line has to come out to remove the bottom. But that may be on a 126 only.

I think the opinion on the Trucktec lines is pretty low, unfortunately. The fact that nobody has a different brand led me to planning on doing the AN conversion. Especially since my oil cooler was broken in an accident anyway.

The way the almighty engineers wound the lines (especially the top one) under and between everything is absurd. I never want to do that again.

-Rog

@Junkman
Interesting. I will have to investigate that. However, I cleaned the oil cooler fittings before I put everything back and I had the oil cooler out of the car. I did not see any cracks as I was cleaning the fittings, but then again: I wasn't specifically looking for them either.
Also, I can see the oil at the top of the metal 'collar', right where the rubber line attaches to it. If the fitting on the oil cooler itself would leak, one would think I would not see oil there, as it would have to travel up, to show up at that spot. The bottom of my oil cooler is wet with oil, but that's to be expected if the line leaks where the rubber meets the metal collar.
So I really do think it is not my oil cooler, but it should be something I have to take a closer look at.

@Rogviler
Yes. I hated having to jack the engine up. It felt a little...unsafe? I was glad I got the job over with, and I'm really dreading having to do it again.
The good news is that I would hopefully be able to do it in one afternoon now. I was struggling with the lines being super stuck the first time, but I'd assume that everything would be easier to remove now, as they haven't been on there very long.

Also, it appears I am not the only one that has this issue with the Trucktec lines. I found another topic from about a year ago here:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/354513-new-oil-coolant-line-82-300d-leaking.html

Question remains though: To drive or not to drive...:(

And I guess let this be a lesson for those that are attempting this job in the future: Stay away from the Trucktec lines if you can... :(

I've got leaking lines on the 85SD AND others have had catastrophic failures so...we've been warned. The 85 is currently sitting awaiting front end refurbishment and it is sitting safely in the drive - fortunately before I needed a lesson in engine R&R.

Line conversion is looking for that one.

You have another option vs. AN fittings; hydraulic hose. Take it to a shop that does these hoses, and they will replace the crap hose. I myself wanted to do AN fittings, but I am unsure I can afford it.

And mine is leaking too, but mine are OE. Most of my driving is in town right now, and I watch my oil pressure like a hawk... I've also been watching some threads on an early warning system when the oil level drops below a certain point, an alarm is sounded.

Yeah, but once that oil line blows, at any speed above 40mph, you'll empty out 8 quarts of oil in 5 seconds.
I don't think an alarm will matter much. You'll have to respond very quickly.

I also watch the dials like a hawk, but it's an unpleasant driving experience.

Bottom line is I need to suck it up and buy an install a new oil line, but man: am I frustrated right now! :(

Careful. Where will the pressure drop first? I honestly do not know...

I highly recommend that. It's what I did when I did my engine swap. Once you get the fittings brazed onto the hard lines and drill and tap the cooler for 1/2NPT to -10 AN adapters you can do the hoses yourself. And reuse the fittings if the hoses need to be done again. Plus the stainless braided hose looks killer.

I've had the hoses on and off half a dozen times over the last 75k miles while working on stuff where a little extra clearance helps.

...if it's good enough for airplanes, it's good enough for our cars.

@Mach4
I understand that, and I've seen the topic on that. But, I really don't want to drill and tap the oil cooler. What if that goes wrong?

Engine Oil Line, and coolers has been a topic since the forum started.
here is a link to many Cooler line topics.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/211352-engine-oil-cooler-hose-line-issue-link-thread.html#post1738108

The original oil cooler Lines that MB installed at the factory, and the after market one`s available today are not one in the same. Originals were made of a much tougher material and looked to be wrapped and rubber.

The new one`s are a thinner type rubber hose and probably won`t last any where near as long as the originals.

The original metal ends I believe had several barbed ridges compared to the after market ones. so this is one reason I believe the truck tec one`s leak or seep oil from the start.

I bought a replacement after market set several years ago, and could not get on of them at the Oil Filter end to tighten and not leak.

I finally used the old set, and had a Hyd Shop braze on AN type fittings, and had new hoses made to screw one. problem fixed.

It might be best to source a set off a junker at PNP and have the AN fittings brazed on.

If they are leaking or seeping oil, you are on borrowed time. When one blows, you will have a quick oil change. :eek:

If you can`t afford to fix the lines, then can you afford a new engine or replacement car.?


Charlie

Pick up a spare Oil Cooler at the junk yard, they are around $20.

mach4 drilled his because he used a right angle fitting.

If you use the stock metal pipe end and braze on AN fittings, then you do not have to drill the cooler.

If the threads on the Cooler strip because the steel collar and the Aluminum have corroded, then you will have to drill and tap for the Screwed nipples.

Charlie

Drill and tap bigger. Put in a plug.

Or braze a patch and rework.

Thats the beauty of metal work. Why I like it better than wood. Its hard to go to far and not come back.

Sorry to hear your troubles... I finished this same job a few weeks back. Replacing the original lines (lower one seeping at the cooler) Indeed, what an oily PITA it was.

I also installed a new trucktec line and agree it is not as quality a part as the original. The rubber is "flimsier" and I bet is only single layer. Shame since the package indicates its made in Germany.

I cut out the originals and they are indeed double layered (hose within a hose).

I've only driven a 100 miles or so since the replacement. So far no leakage. Dealing with pilot bearing issue, trans is out of the car again.

I actually found a newer upper used OEM replacement hose in the trunk of a w123 at the boneyard.

I also nabbed an oil cooler from a w126, learning from the board here to have a spare.

Surprisingly, the oil cooler fittings and upper cooler fitting broke free without much effort. But the lower cooler fitting was seized... PB blaster or heat, no joy. The original cooler is now still sitting on my garage floor.

@84-300dee
Yeah, my lower line was seized on the cooler as well. I cut the original line so I could take the cooler out of the car and I got lucky; after applying moderate heat it came off.

@lucas
I'm not much of a metal worker, I'm afraid... Thanks for the advice though :)

@charmalu
I have yet to find a pick n pull yard here in Fairbanks... Or any place that sells second hand W123 parts here, for that matter... The W123 is not my daily driver, so if the worst were to happen and the line blows, I will just not have a W123 anymore. It won't affect my daily life much. It's also not a money matter: A new oil line costs a 100 bucks so that is not too bad.
However, it is just that I don't want to do this job again. I just did it. I'm going to see if Pelican Parts is willing to refund the cost of the lower line - since it has been defective from the start - and I'll see if I can source an oil line from another manufacturer. Fun stuff.

For now I guess I still won't be doing much driving with the Benz... At the rate things are going summer is going to be over before I can drive it. :P

EDIT:
You know, on second thought: You guys might be on to something...I'm gonna gather some more information on these AN fittings... Maybe that should be the way I should go, though the thought of drilling in the oil cooler makes me a bit nervous.

If the Oil Line is seeping around the Collar the Oil Line is defective and you should speak with Pelican about what is needed to replace the line under warranty.

Hi Diesel911. Yep, I sent Pelican Parts an email through their ticket system this afternoon. We'll see how they respond. :)

Yeah thats how everyone feels at first. Ive been welding a long time (18 years? Jesus Im only 30), so its hard to remember.

Maybe you could grab a broken radiator somewhere to play with. If you choose to go that route. Its nice to fix your radiator yourself. Especially in California where you cant pay someone to.

The other problem, that solder is nasty stuff. I wear a full gas mask with the correct filters. And its illegal to do in some states maybe. Although this isn't a radiator.

@Lucas
Ha, we're the same age. I've never welded before in my life though :(

So, just as a little update: after several emails back and forth between Pelicanparts, they have resolved the issue in a satisfactory manner (good customer service, really!), and I'll get a new line hopefully next week (Wednesday I hope).

I hope I have time to switch out the lines next week or so, and then...finally!...I should be able to drive my car with the peace of mind knowing that there is nothing crucial about to break.
Of course, that leaves literally everything that is non-crucial still very much broken....but....As long as I can actually drive it, the rest will get taken care off. Though, there is some worrisome rust. Or...Well, when I say rust, what I really mean is: lack of metal at certain parts of the floor pan...:( Not sure yet how I am going to fix that, I guess I'll have to find a place to weld that for me.

But, first things first: oil line.

And the first stop when it really drives? Car wash!

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1431669283

New Oil line seeping
 

Haha. I grew up on a farm.


I wouldnt weld on the body myself. Too easy to warp it.

If going for gold, yeah pay someone.

If trying to keep water out, get some flashing, cut to fit, and silicone/rivet/screw it down.

I like this idea, I'd add treating the existing rust to try to slow it down, and then using NP-1 caulk to seal inside between floor and new flashing.

Just find an old school bodyman. I had my 78 Datsun Z floor patched so it looks factory for $200. That cost less than .y time and is much better than my skills allow.

Hi Certismo,

I tried to warn you about the Trucktec when you first posted on this job. There is a Burgaflex line available as well. It's more difficult to find and more expensive (~$90-$100). It is what I used and we'll see if it holds on mine (good after about 3000 miles so far).

If it doesn't hold up, I'm going to do what mach4 did.

Dkr.

@Dkr
Yes, I know. I don't like the idea of putting another Trucktec line on there either, but I wasn't able to find much else.
I have Googled for a while and searched other online stores, but they all sell the Trucktec lines for twice what PelicanParts does. Other websites have it listed as "Monarch" and "Made in Germany", but the line looks identical. The same gold color, and it looks the same where the rubber is crimped on the metal.

I have noticed the difference seems to be that other lines (like my upper line) have three "ribs" on the metal side where the rubber meets the metal, but the trucktec only has one "rib". Maybe that has to do with them being more prone to leaking, there just isn't as much rubber inserted into the metal as with the other lines.

I do believe that Trucktec is vastly inferior to the original lines, but I don't believe that means that all Trucktec lines are bad.
So, since PelicanParts is sending me a new line, I'm going to take a second chance and put another Trucktec line in.


Of course, if that one were to leak right away just as the old one did, I'd never ever use Trucktec again....

I replaced one of those oil lines and it was a bear (removed motor mount from block). If me, I would disconnect it and cut the metal collar off. Use an air cut-off wheel, hacksaw, and/or Dremel tool. Use hose clamps instead. The best are Oeticker(sp?) type, but you must be able to slide out the metal fitting to put those on (use 2). A screw hose clamp can work (use 2). See posts here. The after-market AC hoses on my 65 Newport has those and haven't leaked in 50 years.

Yeah, I just did this job a month ago and it wasn't very pleasant. It'll probably be easier now though, I'm assuming the lines won't be as stuck as they were.
I can't cut the lower line, because I need to ship it back in one piece for a refund...

This is the one I bought and the seller - $140 on eBay.

New Burgaflex Engine Oil Line 617 187 12 82 for Mercedes | eBay

Dkr.

At prices like that, doing Mach4s mod seems like a no-brainer.

It would have to be an AUDIO alarm...like airplanes use for important warnings.

Actually, Mach4's mod adds an additional potential point of failure. And, while it appears to be a good design, I still have some concern about the quality of materials considering how it is very possible nowadays to buy products that are marked for one spec but really built for another, largely due to the epidemic of made in China.

I would rather put my money on the original design and made in Germany, Europe or America.

Dkr.

Can you elaborate?

By the way, on my coast-to-coast road trip today I passed 80,000 miles on the swap. No sign of a problem with the hoses, fittings or design.

You can disconnect the soft rubber line from the hard line. It's an easier job to R&R but also *could* get disconnected due to vibration or inferior/worn out materials. On the OEM job, you can only disconnect from the oil cooler or oil filter housing. From watching these forums and talking to MB-Diesel people, in practice the only line that could totally disconnect is the one on the oil cooler, usually the lower one.

That's good, because I think the next time I need to do this (hopefully on another vehicle), I doubt I will be able to buy an "expensive" line at all and I won't use one of the inferior brands.

Dkr.

While I can understand why you would be concerned if you bought the items in question from Vatozone, I believe you would have less reason if you bought those items from a highly rated retailer, on eBay or otherwise. The fact that they are probably made in China is not a concern, your quality - check is through their satisfaction rating. . The Chinese are fully capable of making good products, they just have to have the incentive, which is worse why the satisfaction rating is so important.

I used Oetiker Camps on the Hose ends that attach to the Oil Cooler itself and Norma Worm Gear Hose Clamps on the lower Hose Connections.

I used the Hose Clamps on the Lower end of the Hose because I did not have the special Oetiker Clamp (I used a Nail Cutter/Nipper) Pliers that will crimp the Clamps with the Pliers parallel to the Hose.

Of you remove the Lower Hose Metal Tubes from the Oil Filter you can do the whole job wit Oetiker Clamps (make sure the Hoses are indexed properly) and the Nail Cutter/Nipper but it is more work to remove that.

There is also more then one company that makes Oetiker Clamp Pliers that will crimp parallel to the hose.

On mods using welding or brazing; they are only as good as the person's skill that is doing the job.

However, in this case I doubt if the weight of the Hose vabrating is sufficient to loosen up even a less then excellent job.

I think a main part is if you use Factory Made Hoses or doing a Mod is everytime the Hood is open to take a close look at the Oil Cooler Lines for issues. If you see an issue fix it or avoid driving till you fix it.

The Chinese are capable of producing high-quality products. The problem is that as a nation they have shown themselves to be untrustworthy. In America, there would be lawsuits for people who misrepresented their products which caused catastrophic failures. In China, it is business as usual. American and European firms stamp their name all over their product because they want to develop a positive reputation. Chinese companies don't display their name and make it hard to find so you can't blame them or find them again. I'm not going to take a chance like that on such an important part. For a window switch or interior gadget, maybe. But, not on something that could destroy the engine.

Dkr.

I picked up my new oil line from the post-office yesterday. I am hoping to have time this weekend or perhaps Memorial Day to put the new line in.
I'm kinda depending on a buddy of mine to help me out. Doing this job alone is terrible, I'd like an extra set of hands and my wife refuses to drive this car, let alone help me fish in the new line... :D I'm hoping to post a successful update in a few days. I think I'll go and try to loosen up the lines already tonight. I'm hoping they haven't gotten too stuck in the month that they have been on.


Question: Should I drive the car for a while and get the lines hot? Would that make it easier to unbolt them? Please say Yes. I need an excuse to drive the Benz again! :)

If you have previously removed the Line there should be no issues removing it.
If someone has not mentioned it some never-seize type compound on the Oil Cooler Threads should keep it from corroding to the Hose Nut.

If you don't want to make a special trip for the never-sieze smear Wheel Bearing Grease on the Threads as that is better then nothing.

I agree. The issues you experienced before are because of the thing being old and in your crazy weather environment for 30+ years. It should come off very easily this time.

But, old diesel Benzes love to be driven.

Dkr.

@Diesel911
Thanks! I have some high-temperature grease I might use on it then!

@dkr
Say no more! *grabs Betsie's key and runs out the door for a full-throttle run down the block*.

"Sorry officer, but this guy - I believe his name is "duhkuhr" - said that these cars love to be driven, which is most certainly what I was attempting to do".

:D

Unfortunately I won't have time to get to this job this weekend. I put in in my calendar for next weekend, so it will get done then.

I guess the Benz will just have to sit unused for yet another week.

Quick question: I changed the oil and filter last time I did these oil lines (about 2 months ago). I have driven the car for maybe 50 miles since then. I would assume I don't have to do another oil change when I take the lower line out, right? There's not a big chance of any impurities getting into it, so I'd guess I can just top the oil back off after the line has been replaced? Thoughts?

No problem whatsoever. Whatever is in the cooler gets filtered, so unless it's water or some other detrimental liquid you're fine. You might not even need to top it off. There's not that much that will leak out.

A side note, when I drilled and tapped my cooler for the AN fittings I used, I rinsed things out but wasn't at all concerned about any residual metal filings being in there as they would be carried along and caught by the filter.

@Mach4
Thanks for the confirmation. I kinda already thought that it wouldn't be a problem, but figured a second opinion wouldn't hurt. Thanks! :)

In other completely unrelated news while I'm waiting for this weekend to arrive to get that damn oil line taken care off:

I noticed two little red clips on the rear bench seat yesterday as I looked the car over, and realized quickly that those are the bench release buttons. So, just for laughs I took the seat out and....well, I am now also the proud owner of a handful of pennies, a pristine looking Zippo lighter, a collection of "Pokemon" cards, and an assortment of pens and colored crayons and a used paint stirrer.....Seems at some point in time the rear seat has been home to a bunch of kids, a smoker and a paint sniffer!

Man, I wish I would know what kind of previous owners this car has had. What has happened to it in between when it was bought shiny and new in October '83, and when I got it in its current sorry state in 2015? She's rolled almost 280k miles of asphalt under her tires, but who was she carrying when doing it?

If only Betsie could talk, I'd love to hear her stories! How many people have called her 'mine' in the span of 31 years? I'd love to find out more, but have no idea how. It intrigues me...
Someone at some point in time touched up all the little paint chips, so someone must've liked this car. There's a dent in the roof that seems to have come from a crossing gate or something maybe landing on the car? I'm curious to the story behind that. Someone at some point thought that gluing back the warped wood was a great idea, but did it with the finesse and motor skilss of a 2-year old toddler, so it looks godawful.
And who broke the dashboard?

She has so many scars that I am wondering what kind of people have owner her. She must've have had loving owners at some point, but also definitely one previous owner who didnt' give a rats-ass and neglected everything. I know it's "just" a car, but there's so much history to these old ones that they almost seem to come alive!

All right, my buddy came over tonight and we got the new oil line changed out. Took about 2.5 hours all total.

At the end I had a little bit of a fright. Total oil lost was about a quart and half (I also loosened up the upper line to make things easier) so when I started the engine it was way too low on oil. I noticed the oil pressure coming up way slow, so I immediately turned it off, but it kept running since we had knocked a vacuum line loose.
I ran out and hit the emergency stop, topped the oil off, hooked the vacuum lines back up and everything seems to be running fine!

Let's see if the new line will hold.

Oh, wanna know something really cool? My door locks started working! They have never worked. And they work. Like, all of them. Including the trunk and the gas cap. How sweet's that!?

:D

''vacuum lines'' ....sounds like they have been off for awhile for your door locks to suddenly start working.

Order the gasket that goes between the oil filter housing and the block to have on hand when you need it. If you're repairing a once neglected car, you will need it. Also, Elring makes a gasket set that has everything (almost??) to take it down to the long block and re-seal. There is a post here that discusses a "leak free 617" or something similar which I found helpful.

@TnBob
I swear I've checked them before, and every vacuum hose was hooked up. Though, several of the connections have electric tape wrapped around them, so I think I have some brittle hoses that are leaking vacuum, and when I messed around with them it made it work again.
I have noticed however that they don't work as intended. After I shut the engine off I have about a minute or two of vacuum, but after that it's lost. So I need to lock the doors pretty soon after I turn off the engine, and when I come back 30 minutes later they don't unlock. Once I start the engine all other doors unlock as well, so there's some troubleshooting to be done there, but that will be another topic for another day.

@Junkman
Thanks! I already have that gasket. Haven't put it on though... :(

In other news: I've driven Betsie 400 miles since yesterday. 400 miles to absolutely nowhere, and without any purpose for the most part. "What's that, dear? You need me to pick up a quart of milk? Sure thing, let me go to that grocery store that's 45 minutes from here and I'll get it for ya. I like their milk better then the same stuff you can get at the store two streets from here". I've been having fun.

The car's been holding up great. Well, kinda great. The oil line is dry, so that's good, but I've noticed that my fuel return lines are sweating profusely, so that'll need to be fixed. Should be easy though. Gonna pick up some 1/8" fuel line tomorrow and get that done.

Other bigger issues are that my sun roof is leaking water like a sieve. I went through the car wash and had water coming in through the roof pretty bad. It collects in the head liner which swells up like a balloon, and then it comes in through the corners. My sun roof has a dent and doesn't seem to close up properly (though it looks to be closed all the way) because when I'm driving fast (+70mph) the headliner gets wind underneath it. Or so it seems. There's tension on the headliner when driving fast that isn't there when I'm standing still.
Honestly at this point I think a quick fix is to just seal it up with white duct-tape temporarily all around and deal with it later.

The other thing is that the car has been driving great, but at one point out of the blue I had a horrible flare on the transmission going from 3rd into 4th. At the time that it needed to shift, it just...didn't. The engine was freewheeling and revving up quick, and she just wouldn't go into 4th. I put the gear selector in "S", and then put it back into "D", and then she shifted instantly and firmly into 4th and has been shifting firm since then. I haven't had an issue before, and after that one time haven't had one after, but I'm a little worried about the transmission now.
Tranny has 280K on it. She shifts into reverse and drive pretty quick (takes about a second), and all shifts are nice and firm. I'm hoping something as easy as a worn shifter bushing could've caused this (the flare happened after the car was parked for a bit, and it happened the first time after I drove off, so maybe it wasn't in Drive all the way?), but part of me fears it will be way more complicated than that. Ugh...

Anyway, the sun roof and the transmission will be another topic. For now this whole oil line debacle seems to have been fixed, so yaaay I guess...:)