Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:39 AM
arcticathlon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Posts: 1,129
Bug out W123? Rewire the Ignition to bypass electronics

Hi all, I have been away a long time (sold my E300d a few years ago), but like you all were saying it is impossible to stay away. Let me post my question.

My friend and I are interested in buying a 617 with the intention of using it as a "Bug out" car. This is when the Solar Flare, EMP, Zombie apocalypse, etc. happens. What I am wondering is how susceptible the starting system would be for EMP pulse. I am envisioning wanting to install a bypass switch that would directly activate the starter. This would be in case any relays would be fried. I would want to hide the switch in a inconspicuous location so that someone else can't just fire it up without a key. Will this even be possible to just use one switch, or will it not be sending fuel to start the engine.

I know it is a odd topic, and I hope we don't stray too much from the questions. I am looking to buy a W123, W126, Unimog, etc but will probably just look and find a cheap w123 that only needs a good engine and trans. wont care about much of the other usual problems (AC, cruise, etc. ). I am in the Houston area and if anyone wants to pitch their cars, i am in the market for a cheap driver.

Cheers all.

__________________

Grey '91 350SDL 214k Dad's car
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k SOLD
Blue '82 300D 225k SOLD
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-23-2015, 12:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,924
Welcome back in a unique fashion. You really did it.

No problem though as I suspect the old buggies will probably just fire up as is. We do not yet have a UFO type section on site to deal with these things . The site owners originally may just not have been thinking. Or they wrongly thought everyone was already familiar with this area. If that was truly the case shame on them. There is so many questions that need answers.

In retrospect come to think of it we do have a few guys that post frequently on the politics and religion forum that could be more helpful. We users of this portion of the site still have problems getting them started on occasion when there is nothing going down.

Remember to finance the aquisition as payments cease at the time of the event as well. It also surprised me that Mercedes did not use this as a sales tool when these cars where new. Something along the lines that your Mercedes diesel will start and enable you to get away come hell or high water. Or we will provide free roadside assistance. They dropped this feature unfortunately for you not that long ago. Perhaps because they thought the demand might be too great in certain situations. Or just impossible to live up to in them.

In all seriousness though it should just start up. I recall there is a page in the owners manual that describes what to do in no or hard start situations anyways. Although I cannot remember if it covers this. If it does not start let us know.

May the force be with you.

Last edited by barry12345; 12-23-2015 at 12:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-23-2015, 12:12 PM
arcticathlon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Posts: 1,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
Welcome back in a unique way. I suspect the old buggies will just fire up as is. We do not yet have a UFO type section on site to deal with these things yet. The site owners may have just not been thinking. Remember to finance the aquisition as payments cease at the time of the event as well.

May the force be with you.
Hahah, Man have I missed this forum, and the humor of so many of you forum members. I am getting exited to be searching Craigslist and this forum again for a 617. Just can't stay away from them.

So depending on where this thread goes, maybe a Survivalist Section should be started. LOL
__________________

Grey '91 350SDL 214k Dad's car
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k SOLD
Blue '82 300D 225k SOLD
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-23-2015, 01:52 PM
jay_bob's Avatar
Control Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 3,941
On the 123s it is a straight shot from key to starter (through the NSS). Only the later 124s and 126s had a starter interlock relay from the security system.

No real electronics to speak of on the 616/617, the later years got some emission control help but nothing that would stop the engine.

The glow plug relay is electronic and probably would fail open but that is easy to jump out if necessary.
__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-23-2015, 02:15 PM
Bio Brewer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 301
Also, you can push start. Easier with a manual transmission but I believe the manual lists this as an option if the starter won't work or battery is dead. I recall you have to get up to 30 mph or something fairly quick though so a manual transmission might be easier to do this with.
__________________
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette"
'85 Federal 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-23-2015, 02:31 PM
arcticathlon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Posts: 1,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by capflya View Post
Also, you can push start. Easier with a manual transmission but I believe the manual lists this as an option if the starter won't work or battery is dead. I recall you have to get up to 30 mph or something fairly quick though so a manual transmission might be easier to do this with.
I can't imagine pushing an Auto Trans 300d up to 30mph to get it to fire. lol. how many horses would that take?? Hahah. I guess i would just have to build an EMP proof Faraday cage that holds one 617 starter, a battery and a Glock 19. then I can fire it up no matter what.

In regards to the Ignition to the starter, i can't imagine the Load traveling through the Ignition switch, and there still being some sort of relay. even with the W123. I need to pull up some schematics, but if there was a starter relay, then should i not be able to start it by shorting wires at that relay? i could put a large amp switch in place there. Thought? Am I totally off here?

So my wishlist would be a 240TD or 300TD that is cheap, has a manual Trans and working motor. care about nothing else.
__________________

Grey '91 350SDL 214k Dad's car
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k SOLD
Blue '82 300D 225k SOLD
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned

Last edited by arcticathlon; 12-23-2015 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-23-2015, 02:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 163
If you look at the area in front of the battery area, there is a bundle of wires at a junction block. Two big screws and a small one. Either big screw jumped to the small one will engage your starter, key in any position, add a momentary contact push button if a jumper wire makes you nervous
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-23-2015, 03:04 PM
arcticathlon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Posts: 1,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partscarver View Post
If you look at the area in front of the battery area, there is a bundle of wires at a junction block. Two big screws and a small one. Either big screw jumped to the small one will engage your starter, key in any position, add a momentary contact push button if a jumper wire makes you nervous
Thanks for the info, I currently don't own a W123, so i will have to find some pictures of my old W123s, or look it up in google pictures.

Looks like the W123 is the way to go, for what i am looking for.
__________________

Grey '91 350SDL 214k Dad's car
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k SOLD
Blue '82 300D 225k SOLD
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:49 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix Arizona. Ex Durban R.S.A.
Posts: 6,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by capflya View Post
Also, you can push start. Easier with a manual transmission
Wow. Push start. Now that's a term I've not heard in a long time, a long time... Most curious.

I remember my parents having to do that quite a lot in my youth, given the nature of the vehicles we owned. Of course. We lived in quite a hilly place, especially compared to the billiard table flatness I inhabit now, so you could usually just let gravity help you out, but Ive pushed a few cars in my day.

Manual transmission 240D would be my suggestion if you can find it. And no, mine's not for sale

- Peter.
__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:06 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticathlon View Post
Hahah, Man have I missed this forum, and the humor of so many of you forum members. I am getting exited to be searching Craigslist and this forum again for a 617. Just can't stay away from them.

So depending on where this thread goes, maybe a Survivalist Section should be started. LOL
Thanks for allowing my poor attempt at humor. I just could not help it. I will also go take my meds now.

Anyway the only two coils are in the starter and the solenoid. Both are pretty shielded and even if they developed a heavy inductance spike their normal loads should bear it. So you should be okay.

The only thing is in my opinion you may need is one new circuit and one modification. A bypass to manually activate the glow plugs as the glow plug relay might fail and a switch to disable the majority of all other items in the car that may have shorted.

From personal experience you can idle the car all night burning little fuel in the process. I did this one night when the road conditions had deteriorated to useless on my way home from New Jersey.

This on todays exact date many years ago. I wanted to get home for Christmas with a new acquisition. I thought I could make a motel before the driving conditions became impossible. I was wrong.

It was with a 240d and the ideling diesel allowed me to sleep overnight comforatably with adequate heat. On possibily a gallon of fuel. In your case the alternator regulator and heater control unit might be either shorted either creating a no control situation or constant on one.

This bugging out concept has complications. You leave most the things you have and may need behind. In our case there is a nuclear reactor power plant 50 miles miles away as the turkeys fly. Unfortunatly we are directly downwind of it here in the prevailing winds . So if it ever went up we would have no hesitation bugging out of the area very fast if possible.

Have a good Christmas. I have as many of us do. The complications of a wife. The children in our case grown and gone. A situation that we tend to get ourselves into.

I will mention to the wife that Reynolds foil is on sale this week. Asking her to get me the supersized one with no fries. Even though I am getting old it is the Christmas season. You have to have a little goodwill. So I will not post on your thread again unless I go off my meds again.

I actually got a head start on the season today. At the daughters place I sat at their kitchen table drooling until she took pity on me and dished up a large bowl of their great seasonal fish chowder. It was conditional though as she wanted the grandson strangled. I also got the wifes gift issue sorted around this evening.

The dishwasher had broke. She asked me to get her a new one for Christmas. I foolishly fixed it as I felt a new dishwasher was not personal enough as a Christmas gift. She told me now that dishwasher is fixed. I have changed my mind and would like a nice shiny new blue car. My first though is why the hell did I fix the dishwasher.

Anyway for whatever reason I also landed up at the jewelers shop this evening. The daughter had suggested I look for something there. She had obviously put an even larger price on the fish chowder. Well I thought nothing can ever be as serious as when we were first starting out in life and had no money or very little.

The wife asked me for a wheel barrow for Christmas. I have noticed ever since whenever she is conversing with her female gang members. If they mention what they got for Christmas. Out comes this regurgitated he once got me a wheelbarrow story. If I happen to be in the same room at the time I get this strange look from the women present.

People that know me well ask me why I take the seasonal meds. It bothers me that since the majority of them are also married they do not understand. Their over imbibing on occasion during the season for all practicallty is the same thing. I already do the seasons survivalist thing but just with meds. I cannot afford to bug out as we have this his and hers arrangement . What is mine is hers as well.

To all the site members I wish only good things for Christmas and the upcoming year. Except for the ones that want to see me put away. It baffles me why so many people are on the wives side of the issue. To make it even worse I just realized I left my tin foil hat on the chair I am sitting on.

Last edited by barry12345; 12-24-2015 at 01:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:33 AM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,835
I recommend you purchase a brand new lead acid battery, and an acid container, and store the liquid from the battery in the container. Then no matter how long you have to store the car, you have access to a solid 12V battery.

The w123 and older vehicles have analog mechanical gauges and manual seats and windows were available. ( I've got a true euro 300D 4 speed with manual everything for sale, needing very little to be roadworthy...)
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-24-2015, 04:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: northern IL
Posts: 267
If you are really serious, get a small basic mechanically injected non-turbo diesel w/manual trans vehicle. Manual fuel shut off rather than electric &/or vacuum actuated. Generator w/mechanical regulator rather than alternator. Mechanical window lifts & mechanically adjustable seats. Batteries, wipers & lights are your weakness because they need electrical power, no substitute. Older Detroits, older Benzes and some others (Lister-Petter, etc) will run on most any petro or veg oil based fuel (once running) so you can conserve D2. Realize that a fresh engine will go farther than an old smoker. Stock pile belts, tires, lube oil, filters & coolant.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-24-2015, 09:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,115
I am surprised the AMC show "The Walking Dead" hasn't broached this subject yet. They still show them starting up gas cars after 3 years. Even if the battery was good, the gas would be going bad (volatiles evaporated, leaving more like diesel). But, they try to be fairly true to the comic book, so that author may not have known.

You can push-start a 1982-85 M-B 300D, but you do need to get it to ~35 mph (i.e. harder than a manual). I am not sure about 1985 CA since it has the later 700.4xx tranny. Many automatics could be push-started long ago. My 1964 & 65 Chryslers are like that. Chrysler dropped the rear pump which allowed that soon after (1966?). The M-B trannys are a fairly old design so apparently still had a rear pump. If can park it on a hill, no need to worry about the electrical working. But, better to get a manual tranny.
__________________
1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-26-2015, 11:22 AM
arcticathlon's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Posts: 1,129
I am wondering if the same jumping scenario applies to a 1981 W126. it has the same engine and i would think that nothing should be different. of couse it is an automatic trans, so the suggestions for getting a manual would not apply.

Hmm would the 5 speed trans from my 1986 190e fit in a 300sd? i doubt iot, since i bought it for my 1995 e300d special edition Auto to manual swap. probably has the starter hole on the wrong side and would need a custom adapter made.

Thoughts
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-26-2015, 11:55 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: northern IL
Posts: 267
very similar - at the starter there is a solenoid that has a large diameter wire (battery feed) attached to a stud & nut and a smaller stud with a smaller diameter wire (about 12ga, usally white) that applies power to the coil in thje solenoid. Jump between the two & the starter turns the engine. If the fuel is flowing, the engine starts. To shut down the engine, shut off the fuel.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page