w210 e300 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bsharp8256 · #1 01-21-2016, 12:50 PM

I realize this has probably been beat to death on this and other forums, but I was hoping to get some more recent input. I currently use a w115 220D as my daily driver, and despite being an excellent, reliable, and fuel efficient (for my needs) car, I'm looking to upgrade to something that's a little more refined. The first thing that jumps to mind is a 05-06 CDI, but they're right at the upper end of what I'm willing to spend, and I'm a little worried about being able to do repairs myself. I'm still stinging from the ABC flush on my S55 last week.

The w210 diesels seem to be a nice compromise, but I see that reported fuel economy seems to be all over the place. I meticulously track my 220D's mileage on Fuelly, and you can see in my signature that I've gotten around 34mpg over the past 30k miles. While I'd like to match that, realistically 30mpg would keep me happy. I've noticed that I tend to get higher economy that what most people report, probably because my commute is about 50 miles/day at probably 85% highway. I'm also fairly light on the pedal, although I wouldn't say I drive like a grandma. I'm finding myself rambling on so I'll list my perceived pros/cons for each chassis:

W211

Pros:
1. Fuel economy
2. Better creature comforts
3. More power/torque
4. Looks better
Cons:
1. 2X+ initial cost
2. Less end-user repairability?
3. SBC
4. Personal preference: CDI engines seem to be more sensitive to fuel quality

W210

Pros:
1. MUCH cheaper to acquire. Would probably buy outright with cash
2. Simpler IDI engine
3. Less computerized overall
4. Standard ABS
Cons:
1. Nearing 20 years old at this point, maintenance could be an issue
2. Less power
3. May not reach fuel economy goals

Do my perceptions line up with reality? If I went with a w210, I'd really only consider the turbo 98-99 models...I've done plenty of driving with a NA diesel, thanks. I'm also willing to shell out the cash for a CDI if they're really that much better, but I really value being able to do the work on my own car, and other than the spring perch issue, the w210 seems rock solid. The warranty on the SBC system will be wrapping up for the latest CDIs, so that's also something that weighs heavily on my mind. Thoughts?

shertex · #2 01-21-2016, 01:37 PM

I own one of each and enjoy them both. FWIW, I also track mileage with Fuelly and, so far, get about 6 mpg better with the CDI.

In addition to the spring perch issue you will have more general rust issues with the W210. But, if you're in Nashville and get a southern car, perhaps that won't be an issue.

If I owned neither and was going to buy one as my daily driver, I would spend the extra money and get the CDI. The only Achilles heel of the CDI is the SBC system, but I think that may be overblown. So what if I have to spend $1500 or so at the 250k mile mark to replace the pump....not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

My guess is that anyone who owns or has owned both of them will recommend you go with the CDI....but we shall see.

Also, in some respects the CDI is easier to work on...replacing glow plugs is one obvious example.

engatwork · #3 01-21-2016, 01:38 PM

Go with a 98 w210, e300. We get 34 mpg with the one the wife daily drives and she average 3000 miles/month.

dude99 · #4 01-21-2016, 01:45 PM

The w210 would suit your needs from what you have listed. Keep in mind though that w210's rust, badly..... The engines and drivetrain are pretty bulletproof however. The only real issue is the glowplugs (which can get stuck in the head), front spring perches which can snap off due to rust, and window regulators... Did I mention rust?

The w211 from what I have read is a great car. This is when Mercedes began making quality cars again. The only issue I have heard of, as you mentioned, is SBC pump failure. There is great debate about how, when, and why they fail. If it was me, I would replace the pump as soon as I bought one and consider it a one time safety expense. When you pro rate it over the time of your ownership the ~ $1200 for a new one isn't that bad, especially for the safety aspect.

If you can find a good, rust free w210 they are great cars. However if you can afford a w211 and don't mind the cost of SBC pump replacement, I would strongly suggest considering one.

Wodnek · #5 01-21-2016, 10:18 PM

I went from a 124 87 300D to an 05 CDI. my wife bought an 06 so i knew i wanted one. The 211 is a joy. power like a 90s V8, and mileage near 40 on a long trip. Range between fill ups can be 800 miles. Many things are easy to work on on the 211. Ball joints are way easier on a 211 than my 124. Which is a good thing since they don't last on a 211. Improved glow plug design so it doesn't need to be plugged in. Other than a few seconds of rough running in the cold, it is like starting a gas car.
No room to make your own fuel on these though. You are right that they want good fuel.

Deplore · #6 01-21-2016, 10:56 PM

W210:

Pro:
Bulletproof engine/transmission combo
Comfortable seats
Cheap parts
Very easy to diagnosis -- there are not many parts that need over 4-5 hours of labor (evaporator core is an exception)
Could convert to veggie
Very good gas mileage

Cons:
Dated
Rust can be issue depending where you get it
Mileage is all over the page
Paint issues (paint quality isn't as good as later cars)
Many are neglected, so power delivery is.....subpar

W211:
Pro:
Very good looking
More modern amenities (bluetooth, nav, etc)
Excellent gas mileage++
Excellent torque

Cons:
High price
Expensive parts
If you're DIY, you're going to need SDS and/or Xentry, so that's roughly about $1000 extra
SBC (not really a con, as I love SBC)
Did I mention expensive parts? Each injector is $350, and a badly neglected W211 CDI will have the black death on the injectors, necessitating replacement of injectors
Ball joints are like putty....they wear out fast
W211 is really sensitive to alignment....bad alignment = eats tires for breakfast
Cheap plastic interior....door handles, window switches, radio knobs wear out like crazy

I own a 98 E300 TD, and I've driven many, many different cars as part of my job, including W211 CDI. I can say right off the bat that the seats in my car is 10x more comfortable than any of the W211 I've ever sat in, except perhaps W140, W221 and W222 (but then again, they're in a totally different category). W211 is very nice from a technical point, but don't expect W126 bulletproof reliability and longevity. Conversely, my W210 feels very slow off the line -- only when the RPM's pass 2000 is when it shows strength. My other W210, a 97 E320, is far faster off the line and up all the way to the redline. E300 will get there....eventually.

Make no mistake, I love both W210 and W211. But they both have different pro's and con's. Were it up to me, I'd sell the 97 E320, buy a W211 CDI and daily drive it, and keep a W210 E300 as a backup car, since it will start everytime, without fail. And there's little to go wrong, unlike W211.

shertex · #7 01-22-2016, 07:46 AM

I agree with the comment about the seats: W210 definitely more comfortable. W211 not UNcomfortable, just not as comfortable.

Skid Row Joe · #8 01-23-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

I agree with the comment about the seats: W210 definitely more comfortable. W211 not UNcomfortable, just not as comfortable.

Don't know how the w210 could be more comfortable than the w211. W211's a bigger, heavier car but perhaps not a taller car. Inside - much more spacious, bigger front seats, more elbow-room, wider seating surfaces, lots more legroom. Other then the closeness of the windshield roofline to your face, cause of it's sleek windswept windshield, it's a lot bigger car in every way. Huge freakin' trunk vs. the w210's.

You have to try one on to see how it fits you, however I drove my W210 - 130K miles over 14-years, and 8K miles over 3 years on my W211 - so, that's my trial periods of the two models.

engatwork · #9 01-24-2016, 08:04 AM

I find that the seat in my w211 is more comfortable than the w210 seat. One negative of the w211 is the fact that tires for it are more expensive than the w210 and they don't seem to last as long as they do on the 210.

m1tch · #10 01-22-2016, 07:59 AM

Is this with the turbocharged OM606 like mine or the NA? Main thing to worry about with the W210s is rust, design is a bit dated but its a fun car to drive and mine being an estate is really useful, so much space plus 7 seats lol

Skid Row Joe · #11 01-23-2016, 12:25 AM

Not knowing your budget, you can pay a little or a lot for one.

All depends on locale/availability, the source, your willingness to buy one long distance, condition, and miles.

I've owned both. The '99 E300 from new. The #06 CDI, from 59K miles.

I prefer the CDI, hands down.

VW1300 · #12 01-23-2016, 09:34 AM

I like my W210, and coming out of a W115, it will be a huge upgrade for you. I would think in TN you should be able to find some well preserved southern examples not too far away.

I would look around for a nice, well maintained W210 first, but if you can't find one, then go ahead and spring for a W211, it might be easier to find a nice one since they're newer. But they're still depreciating.

bsharp8256 · #13 01-23-2016, 05:09 PM

Thanks all, you've given me a lot to chew on. Unfortunately, I can't say that any of you have made it easier for me to decide one way or the other! I like simplicity, reliability and cheapish parts (I do drive a w115, after all), but since I'm not planning on getting rid of it any time soon, I'd still have it as a fallback. I don't do Biodiesel or WVO, and was referring to general fuel quality.

If I decide on a CDI, I'd put my budget at $10k or less. With a E300, I suppose for a good example I'd go $5k, but >$4k sounds a lot better to me. I'd definitely want the turbo and if I could get a turbodiesel wagon in the w210 chassis here in the states, I probably wouldn't have even needed to post this thread, unless we also had CDI wagons

I'm not afraid to travel, although I'm restricting my search area to within a few hours' drive. I like road trips! Realistically, I think the thing for me to do is spring for a w210 that I can pay cash for, and perhaps upgrade to a w211 after a few more years of depreciation. The w210 should be cheaper to insure as well. Although if a good deal for a CDI shows up...ah, I'm thinking out loud again!

sixto · #14 01-23-2016, 05:50 PM

It's far easier to find a well cared for 210 than 211 for less than $10K, but how does a $4K 210 compare to a $10K 211? Seems like either will need at least $2,000 in the first year to resolve deferred maintenance issues and make it a reliable daily driver.

Sixto
83 300SD

bsharp8256 · #15 01-23-2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

It's far easier to find a well cared for 210 than 211 for less than $10K, but how does a $4K 210 compare to a $10K 211? Seems like either will need at least $2,000 in the first year to resolve deferred maintenance issues and make it a reliable daily driver.

Sixto
83 300SD

My thinking is that I'd rather spend money on a car I own outright rather than one I'm making payments on, although perhaps it would be cheaper overall to get one that's been taken care of. Ultimately it depends on what's out there when I'm serious about buying...I need to get rid of some projects that aren't going anywhere first.