Shops seem useless these days and it reinforces my desire to do everything myself. Example--I am rebuilding a 722.3 transmission in my roommate's car and did the rear crank seal while I was at it. I noticed that the flywheel ring gear was chewed up. We're doing this on a budget, so I decided to just flip around the ring gear and use the good side.

Most auto parts stores have closed their machine shops. The Carquest still had one open. So I brought the flywheel there and asked for them to flip the ring gear around so the good side was facing the starter. The looked at me like I was talking crazy and they said they can't do anything like that. They told me that there is no way to remove the ring gear without damaging it. I asked them if they recycled used oil, and they said no.

So I thanked them and went to the O'Reilly Auto to drop off the used oil. I noticed on their windows that they advertised turning rotors. So I asked if they could flip around the ring gear. They said no, but that any transmission shop would be able to do it.

So I went to a transmission shop that claims they can rebuild a 722.3 with their eyes closed. The owner said no at first, but then said he would show the flywheel to his Builder to see if he could do it. The owner came back and said that there was no way to remove the ring gear without damaging it because hitting it with a sledge would damage the teeth.

He said it would be better to replace the entire flywheel with a new one than mess with replacing the ring gear. I couldn't believe he said that! I told him that each flywheel is balanced to the engine and I would have to have a replacement one match balanced with the old one and then that would be more hassle than it was worth.

So while I was there I asked him how much it would cost to flush out the torque converter. He told me that they can't flush torque converters and send everything torque-converter related to a shop downtown--but the shop could only rebuild, not flush them. Whatever.

So I went to the hardware store and bought a MAPP gas torch. I heated up the ring gear, tapped it with a punch, and it fell right off. Then I put the flywheel in the freezer, put the ring gear in the oven at 400 degrees, then dropped the ring gear onto the flywheel. It was sloppy and loose on the flywheel until the ring gear cooled down. It was really that easy and yet no professional shop seemed capable. Wow.

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DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

They don't want the liability, that's why.

They don't fix stuff or diagnose any more, just swap in new parts until the symptoms go away.

....I was going to say more, but i think I'll just leave it there...

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Current Stable

• 380SL (diesel)
• Corvette C5
• Manx
• Baja Bug
• F350 Powerstroke
• Auburn Boattail Speedster replica

Seconded.
They flip the gear, then the customer does a chargeback or sues when some other component fails.

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Greg Schwall

1983 300SD - 465,000 miles

At various times in my life I've been at the other end of this funnel and it's no picnic. If you do these kinds of jobs you get all sorts of crap if it doesn't go well or (as GTStinger noted) you flip the ring gear and the customer comes back furious when his radio goes out, like "You touched my car so you're now responsible for my entire car for life." When you walk in the door they have no way to know if you're That Guy or not so most have taken the stance that they simply don't do this kind of work.

The other issue is one of making money. As parts availability has vastly improved it's more profitable to replace the part rather than rebuild it. One example - when I worked at the Buick dealer we relined brake shoes - a LOT of them - with riveted linings. We had the equipment to do it correctly and I can't recall a failure. Later on bonded linings became common and the steel parts got cheaper and it no longer was cost effective (either for the customer or the dealership) to do these in-house. And when we started installing these bonded linings our liability was shifted to the supplier which makes the insurance company VERY happy.

And so repairing stuff has become less and less common - for better or worse. Your home solution was excellent but understand that the liability now lies with YOU so if something goes wrong (say, the ring gear slips on the flywheel) it's up to you to handle it. So you can take that chance where the shop really can't.

I have a buddy locally who runs a successful repair shop where they do a lot of general repairs but also hot rod work and other "unusual" stuff (they had a Citroen 2CV in last month!). If they get into a situation like yours they have the customer sign IN WRITING that they are not responsible for the outcome in an effort to cover themselves. Customers are used to a perfect repair first time every time and these unusual situations don't always fit into that category.

Dan

Dan - that is about the most logical and best thought out explanation that I have seen. While lots of us who fix things do not like it, this seems to be reality today.

Do you mean Citroen or did Peugeot also make a car called the 2CV?
X2. That was a really helpful post.

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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."

Yes. I saw that on one of the People's Court type shows. A Mechanic did a fix but not a replacement of a part but also charged less.

The Customer took him to Court and the Court ruled that the Mechanic had to warrant it.

The Court advised that either the Mechanic should have done correct job or refused to do the job if the Customer did not want the job done correctly.

So the Mechanic had to pay.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I asked an Aamco shop about rebuilding a 1965 Chrysler RWD transmission that was out of the car and they told me they didn't have anyone on staff who could rebuild transmissions. They charge customers for what? Took it to a Cottman, but unsure they did anything other than wash it off and take my money since it still had the same "drain-back overnight" issue. I rebuilt a 1996 Chrysler transmission that had a "Certified Rebuilders" label and found they had re-used worn clutch plates by adding an extra steel plate and left off critical nut retainers. As I have aged, I learned it is easier, more assured, less stress, and certainly cheaper to do it yourself rather than deal with an arrogant "professional" who spouts nonsense while picking his nose in front of you.

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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

I find such shop extremely shady or ill informed if they dont know how to R&R a ring gear on a flywheel. Every service manual shows you how.

Given the fact that my life in USA is only 5 years old, I lived most of my life in areas where such answer from an automotive repair shop would circulate really fast and that shop would probably lose credibility and tons of business.

If the shop is afraid of liability - then a work order waiver form and signature would seal it. If you guys say that they dont want liability then how come machine shops accept work like facing a cylinder head or replacing a valve or two?

Arent they afraid of liability that the same customer would come armed with a lawyer because their windshield wipers are smearing after the head facing job?

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

Machine shops don't remove heads from car. That's the mechanic's job. Mechanics take the liability/risk of the machinist work and insulate the customers. They also charge an arm and a leg for a head gasket or valve job.

I'm not trying to be obstinate but if a shop isn't comfortable taking the risk of doing a job then they have the right to refuse the job. Unless you accuse them of racism or some other PC stuff they seem to be in the right about this issue. So far, it's still America.

You say they are worthless, I agree. They aren't worried about the liability as much as they are worried about their bottom line. They can take a lot less risk on a job which is much quicker and less complicated (in their opinion) than flipping a flywheel ring.

It's pretty clear you know what you're doing with this project so they also know they can't blow smoke up your shorts. I'd say they are deceitful and just want taller cotton to pick so they won't have to bend over. You should post their name so folks can know to call someone else when they need help.

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84 300SD
85 380SE
83 528e
95 318ic

In my case I removed the cylinder heads, removed all accessory parts (valves included) and handed the shop the heads - The shop owner asked for business type - I said im the owner of the car and DIYing it, didnt make 2 cents of difference to him - his reciept had a "TOS" area on the back of it speaking of this same liability being discussed.

My reason to bare the head of all parts was also liability, I dont want them to lose, break or damage something either.

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

You can also forget the DEALER on these older diesels. I took my diesel by the dealer to see what they would charge for a new battery. $200 for the battery $70 labor to install. The service rep came back out after the tech saw the window washer reservoir and said they would need 2 hrs labor to install. It's clear the tech had never worked on a 1990 Benz. I got a Gr 49 battery at Advance
for $120 after online discount and installed it myself in 20 minutes. And I had never done it before. The only reliable Indy in my area currently is by appointment only, currently 1 month wait. You're pretty much on your own with an older Mercedes diesel

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1990 350 SDL
Currently: 180,000 miles
Factory rebuilt bottom end rods, bearings and head gasket @ 75,000 in 1997

Tell me this--how is swapping a ring gear different than removing and pressing on wheel bearings? They refused to even install a NEW ring gear onto the flywheel.

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Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

Guys, please don't hear me saying that anything I presented is how it SHOULD be! Not at all. It's just the way it pretty much IS these days. I, too, grew up in a small town and yes, you could get stuff done there. We actually have a few pretty decent shops here in Wilmington but it took a number of years to ferret them out. I now have a "go-to" list for a number of repairs that I don't do myself - transmissions, starter/alternators, steering racks & boxes, and if I have a general repair that I can't do myself (I have some health issues that get in the way) I take it to my buddy's shop. But it took a lot of patience and considerable fishing to find these places.

Squiggle - I can't begin to answer your question. Maybe the point is that THEY saw these situations as different and it might just be that they've done a ton of presswork on wheel bearings but haven't done a flywheel. Who knows where they're coming from on this.

Dan