As I posted (I think in my build thread) I was having "issues" getting my clutch to hook up - with the Dieselmeken SuperPump I had more HP than I had clutch. Goran suggested that a BMW 215mm disc would work and they're available in a performance version. Per his suggestion I ordered an FX brand Stage 3, 6 puck disc with sintered copper friction pads. It came in a kit with a performance pressure plate but that was a no-go - it just doesn't fit the weird Mercedes flywheel. EDIT: Mine was for a 320i.

So I reassembled the system with the FX disc and my almost new Sachs pressure plate after cleaning up all the friction surfaces. After the usual clutch bleeding hassles (even with the S-10 master it's still a PITA) I took it out in the driveway for a test run.

The results - see pic. I now have more clutch than brakes! Just to be sure I think I'll take it back to the dyno so I can do a WOT run but all seems OK.

A couple of notes: the pedal is a bit closer to the floor but OK. Also, this style disc is expected to be more "grabby" than a stock disc so if you want a smooth-driving luxury Benz this probably isn't the way you'll want to go. For Mutt it will be fine.

Another tidbit: I noticed that when I installed the pressure plate I pulled all the bolts down to where the PP just contacted the friction disc. The space between the flywheel and the "feet" of the pressure plate was less than I'm used to seeing and I wasn't sure that was OK. After a lot of time on the phone I got ahold of the tech line at McLeod and that guy was SHARP. Turns out that this measurement is called "pull down" and is supposed to be 1/2 of the thickness of the friction material on the friction disc. The sintered copper disc is pretty thin and it turns out that I was pretty close to this spec. So anyone installing a clutch - watch that measurement. On a 617 (well in my case, a 616 flywheel) you can alter than spec either by having the step turned down or shimming under the PP bolts if the distance is too small. Better to fix that as the clutch is going in rather than after everything is assembled and the clutch doesn't work right.

Some knowledge to pass along.

Dan

Attached Thumbnails

 

hydro T O B?

Yes. The trans is a stock Getrag 4 speed from a '83 240D, same as the flywheel. The master cylinder is stock S-10 and the throw out bearing & slave cylinder is stock 240D. This is the same setup I used with the stock clutch and it's worked great until I had more HP than clutch grab. So now I have a disc with a LOT more grab than the stock disc and the stock PP seems like it will be enough with that disc. I'm guessing you could shim or cut (the TOB sleeve as necessary) the TOB to obtain the clearance but mine seems to have come out OK.

EDIT - Oops. No, the TOB is stock 240D and not hydraulic. Just an old-fashioned throw out bearing. The slave cylinder, however, IS hydraulic.

Dan

As an aside, the disc on the 280 motor is a half inch larger....9".

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Good to know though I doubt I could squeeze that into my flywheel recess. The 215mm pretty well covers the face of the flywheel.

Dan

the 280 flywheel is different too, But bolts in.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I wonder if it will fit inside my 240D integral bellhousing? More clutch would be better. Is that flywheel neutral balanced? In the meantime I seem to have something that works though the dyno will verify that - or not.

Dan

m110 flywheel will fit the 4 speed. It uses 228mm diameter clutch.

Issue is it's around 20 lbs. But it does have a nice lip that in theory can have an inertia ring pressed on to it to increase it's weight.

Nice info on the 215mm friction disk btw.

__________________
1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

the 280 can be neutral or not. Needs checking same as with the diesel 617 motor. I had a 280 which was balanced with the crank.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

OK. Now I have to show my ignorance and ask "What's a 280?" I assume it's a Mercedes but what years? Is that an Otto cycle or a different sort of Diesel? And how the heck do Mercedes naming conventions work, anyhow? I think I've figured out that the number is engine displacement in cc's / 10 but the rest is sort of a mystery. I think a 300D and a 300SD have the same engine but the SD body is stretched - but I'm not sure about any of this. Maybe it all makes sense in German.

So the designation "280" has me scratching my noggin.

Dan

280 is a w123 280E/CE/TE or a w126 280SE. They have a 2.8 liter straight 6 cylinder engine designated m110.

In this case, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M110_engine

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

From Wikipedia:

Mercedes-Benz has sold a number of automobiles with the "280" model name:

1959–1968 W111
1967–1971 280SE Coupe & Cabrio
1969–1971 280SE 3.5 Coupe & Cabrio
1968–1971 W113
1968–1971 280SL
1968–1973 W108
1968–1972 280SEL
1968–1972 280SE
1969–1971 280S
1971–1973 280SEL 3.5 (& 4.5 - North America only)
1971–1973 280SE 3.5 (& 4.5 - North America only)
1972–1976 W114
1972–1976 280
1973–1976 280C + 280CE
1975–1980 W116
1975–1976 280S
1977–1980 280SE + SEL
1977–1981 W123
1977–1981 280E
1975/12–1986/01 W123
1975/12–1981/07 280
1975/12–1985/12 280E
1977/04–1980/03 280C
1977/04–1985/08 280CE
1978/05–1986/01 280TE
1994 W202
1994 C280

tw's knowledge might be limited to the M110 "280"; and more's the pity.

^^^ don't forget to include the r107 280SL and w460 280GE!



The late '70s and '80's version of the m110 is what tw and I are referring to with the 228mm diameter clutch flywheel. This as I referred earlier is found in the w123 and w126 bodies as well as the r107 and w460 bodies that I forgotten to mention.


.

__________________
1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

Thanks guys. Are the 280 clutch/flywheel assemblies commonly available or are they in the "hen's teeth" category? At least here in the US it seems like these cars would have come with automatics as luxoboats tend to do. I'd like to pick up the whole setup as a backup - I can check out the balance when I have the current flywheel off. Good to know that there is at least a chance for a bigger clutch.

Dan