The front pump is internal. Removal of the transmission is required, replacement is required, however, it is the first item encountered with the trans out, and the job could conceivably be limited to just pump replacement, although further inspection is usually recommended.

As Frank posted, the front pump is the first thing behind the torque converter, not a big job if you know how to keep things really clean.

I have a good used pump from a '93 300E if you have a way to get it you may have it.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Let us know what is happening.

I would strongly recommend that if a trans has more the 150 thousand miles on it, it should just be rebuilt while it is out. You don't want to have to R & R the damn thing again 25,000 miles from now.

Another thing to consider is the fact that this trans was run dry. That HAD to cause at least some damage to other components, shortening their remaining useful life. If this trans does indeed need to come out, it should be rebuilt. This is exactly the reason why I haven't fixed Benzer3 yet. We just have a blown front seal is all, but being just shy of 150,000 miles and having been run semi-dry, I just don't want to pull that trans until I'm able to do a proper rebuild. So for now the Worlds quickest naturally aspirated stock geared 4.2 powered W124 is a lawn ornament, while other issues are addressed (like needing 4th gear in Benzer7 and 2nd in Benzer6).

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Wow! We went from "it'll probably just need some adjustments" to full out rebuild!

The car has actually behaved the last 2 days. Yesterday I have one or two unwanted downshifts, vs getting them pretty frequently last week. Would it be possible that the second fluid and filter change helped move some crap from the system, and another may further do so?

This isn't really a car I'm interested in spending a fortune to rebuild the trans on, at least not now. I know what I paid for it, and I've just spent a small fortune (relative) to replace the radiator this summer. As nice as it is and as well as it drives, I'd have a hard time justifying it. This is my DD currently while my 560 is worked on and my dad uses my 300D.

There is one further possibility that could cause a low pressure condition; the system pressure regulator could have either a broken spring, a partially collapsed spring, or is sticking partially in the open position. If the third case, fluid changes may be acting to relieve some of the sticking. If you have confidence in a transmission shop to remove and inspect the valve body for a sticking regulator, it would be the least cost near term solution.

Maybe a quality synthetic will get more from the pump. Or Allison Transynd (sp?) which might not be synthetic.

Sixto
83 300SD

Don't get me wrong, I feel ya.

Look at me, I have three cars with tranny issues and I'm just trying to find the one that doesn't need a rebuild so I can drive THAT one!

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Thanks every one for the feedback. This is actually the first I'd read of the pump being bad in all of the searching I've done on this.

I've also read about the b2/k1 springs in some of the threads I've found. Would those be considerations at all?

If this helps, I found a consistency yesterday. It was acting up again, dropping from 4th to 3rd at highway speed. Like normal now I moved to neutral, rev matched, then back to drive. After it finally put itself in 4th and I'll holding the throttle consistently, it never felt like it was fully settled into gear (?). I could basically feel the trans was thinking I was flooring it and kept itself on the cusp of downshifting. Once this starts happening it will do so for a few minutes before settling down again.

We have to remember that your case is a little different in that your trouble began when your trans fluid ran dry.

Again, I, like you, am searching threads trying to find a fix so I don't have to pull my trans. I fear your trouble is related to the fluid loss since that is when your trouble began. I read somewhere on this site (maybe even earlier in this thread) that low fluid pressure will show itself as 4th gear trouble quicker and before it will show up as trouble anywhere else. I am going to try turning the "T" bar in the modulator about 5 turns clockwise to increase line pressure to see if that helps. Maybe you should try doing the same.

In this post gsxr says no My Superior Shift Kit thread (W124 300DT) but in that very same thread the OP posted pics of a broken spring so I guess everybody's case is different. In your case I doubt that briefly running the trans dry affected any springs. In my case I'm going to do the adjustment as he says, then do the "T" bar mod, and then look at those springs if I still don't have 4th.

Good luck! Please wish me the same! Neither one of us wants to have to pull a trans! Please report whatever ends up happening!

Regards,
Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

I will give the adjustment a shot tomorrow. The shifts are feeling fine now (when they happen) but I could tolerate them being slightly firmer if this helps the problem. 5 turns seems alot, no? Everything I've read so far says not to go more than 1/2 turn per adjustment.

Spoke with Jonathan over at BRM this afternoon (if you're reading, thanks again for the advice).

He's also thinking there's permanent damage going on. His advice was to drain the DEXiii in the car and replace with Ford Type F Fluid, along with 2 turns clockwise on the modulator to turn up the pressure.

I'm heading out of town tomorrow through the weekend. I'll do these things when I get back next week and update.

You might want to check the threads on how much to turn the modulator. Two turns sounds way too much to me. Seems like an eighth to quarter turn is enough to make a difference. Clockwise = sharper shifts. Counterclockwise = softer shifts.

For a normal trans, yes, 5 turns is a lot. But we are trying to crutch trannies with low fluid pressure here.

Watch this video and listen to the absolutely miserable 1-2 shift in my beloved Benzer1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTsbVdSvsxM We went from those shifts to second gear chirp producing shifts just by turning the T bar in all the way and then turning it back out 1 full turn. I did the T bar mod on this car right after this track day over 5 years ago and have never looked back. This car is still going strong 5 years later, still producing 2nd gear chirps on EVERY WOT shift (which never gets old BTW, even for this 55-later-this-month-year-old). Even my V8 W124s don't give me 2nd gear chirps! And to think I thought that trans was on it's last legs.

There's a fellow here on this site (I forget his user name) that is also known as "Jono", He runs a Mercedes only shop in Atlanta. Can't be the same Jonathan though because this Jono is the one who told me to turn the T bar in all the way and said he does the same with his cars. I, like you, was fearful, saying, (as you have done) that everybody says just do a half turn at a time. Even gsxr wasn't keen on the idea of going so many turns. But after several trips under the car doing incremental changes, with no change, I had had enough, and did as Jono said. This is the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rigb6oxYEr8 Despite the poor sound quality, you can still hear the second gear chirp! (I won that race against that 500E BTW, because my opponent redlighted.) Thanks Jono!

You're not going to hurt anything. I'm doing 5 turns, I might even do more. At this point I don't have much to lose. Car is pretty useless to me with no 4th gear. The only reason it isn't already done is because I was working on Benzer8 today.

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Jonathan = Jono = Blue Ridge MB in Atlanta.

Sixto
83 300SD