Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-12-2016, 11:15 PM
TylerH860's Avatar
KHAAAAAAN-gress
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wichita, Ks
Posts: 5,187
World's Largest Diesel Engine. 4 Stories tall.

Being pulled by a Mercedes diesel. https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/01/08/45014/

__________________
1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wilmington, NC by the Atlantic ocean
Posts: 2,530
I tried to order one up for Mutt the Race Truck but they were on backorder. Probably just as well as it would have put me in AA engine class.


(besides, it might crush the truck.....)

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-13-2016, 11:00 AM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
Why would a 2-stroke need valves?
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-13-2016, 11:04 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 11,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Why would a 2-stroke need valves?
What I got out of it was that the cylinder next to it added the atmosphere mix which causes the exhaust to be pushed out via the exhaust valve.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2016, 11:36 AM
oldsinner111's Avatar
lied to for years
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Elizabethton, TN
Posts: 6,246
when i use to commercial fish,our boats had detroit 6-71 marine diesels.I liked them a dime was used to set the valves.The Abalone boat had 2 stroke diesels and would fly.our boats did 6 knots tops.I often wondered why cars never had high speed 2 stroke diesels.
__________________
1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2016, 11:56 AM
babymog's Avatar
Loose Cannon - No Balls
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northeast Indiana
Posts: 10,765
Emissions mostly, the Detroit Diesel 92-series (~2100rpm) were pushed out of DD's highway engine lineup in the '90s due to emissions, and the efficiency of the new and proven 60-series 4-stroke engines.

Possibly ironically, from what I've read the 2-stroke engines are believed to be more efficient and with modern valve and injection controls, might be able to be developed to the point of meeting emissions today.

What I don't understand is why trucking continues to use large, heavy, low-rpm diesels to produce their power when there are plenty of much smaller high-horsepower engines that can produce as much (or more) power in a smaller package, have the durability, and will save a lot of weight and fuel.
__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2016, 12:15 PM
Registered Maineiac
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Maine
Posts: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Why would a 2-stroke need valves?
Because they don't use the crankcase as a mixer/supercharger like a 2stroke gas engine does.
There are slats in the bottom of the cylinder walls, when the piston is at BDC the supercharger/turbo blows the exhaust out of the exhaust valve, the valve closes and the cylinder is pressurized. Then the piston moves up an does a typical compression/ignition. When the piston goes down the exhaust valve opes and the process of blowing out the exhaust, then charging the cylinder happens again.
This is the reason that detroit diesels need a supercharger to work.
__________________
1984 300TD -- summer daily driver
Many others that aren't Mercedes...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2016, 02:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wilmington, NC by the Atlantic ocean
Posts: 2,530
Chris tree'd me. He's 'zakly right. A trick question at a gathering of Diesel fans - "How many HP does a Detroit 2-stroke make without a supercharger?" The answer is "zero" - They won't run. Most Diesel fans haven't messed with a DDA (Detroit Diesel Allison, the name of the company when they were making these) and so folks haven't any experience with them. We ran one on the dyno and it made a ton of lb/ft but was, as noted, VERY high in emissions.

Another Diesel trivia question though my info is a bit dated: Last I heard, Penske owned Detroit Diesel and was making them in MI. I did a tour of their emissions facility as we looked for a correlation offset between their lab and ours though I can't remember for the life of me what we finally determined.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2016, 03:48 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Why would a 2-stroke need valves?
If someone has not mentioned it Detroit Diesel Engines have Exhaust Valves. Detroit Diesels also use the (The engine is uniflow-scavenged by way of exhaust valves) Uniflow type scavenging.
Attached Thumbnails
World's Largest Diesel Engine. 4 Stories tall.-detroit-diesel.jpg  
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-13-2016, 04:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Why would a 2-stroke need valves?
When you get to large engines, you see many unusual combinations. Also, parts are so large that things like the crank may be constructed from multiple components. Decades ago, I designed controls for large stationary natural gas pumping engines. They ran on the natural gas from the pipeline, were 2 stroke, but had valves, plus ports in the cylinder walls. I vaguely recall the ports were for intake (after a compressor & throttle) and the valves for exhaust. Don't recall if the compressor was turbo or crank driven). Even the connecting rods were different, with one attaching to the crank and its V neighbor attaching to it above the crank. It was spark ignited, but was controlled more like a diesel by adjusting fuel flow, w/ the throttle usually wide-open. They can do this because natural gas has a much wider flammability limit than gasoline, so can still ignite when very lean.

BTW, people get confused in numbering V engine cylinders. They should be numbered front to back in the order they attach to the crank (recall Ford doesn't do so). But, in this engine the V cylinders were directly opposite each other.
__________________
1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-13-2016, 04:40 PM
babymog's Avatar
Loose Cannon - No Balls
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northeast Indiana
Posts: 10,765
Daimler owns Detroit Diesel, makes a range of engines DD(displacement) for trucks, the largest I believe is the DD16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
Last I heard, Penske owned Detroit Diesel<>
__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-13-2016, 04:50 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 538
The picture in that article is only of a 7 cylinder bank, double it for the biggest 14 cylinder.

Interesting about diesel 2 strokes and valves. Detroit 2-51 and 4-51 engines have no valves, they have inlet and exhaust ports...loop scavanging as opposed to uniflow. Can also do loop scavenging with poppet valves only, many tinkerers have done that to even the OM617 with custom camshafts etc.
__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-13-2016, 06:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 121
Imagine working on the ball bearings and Fetzer valves on that one! (see vid below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjsfs49SRbc
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 3,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerH860 View Post
Being pulled by a Mercedes diesel. https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/01/08/45014/
I've seen that like 20 times and it still never gets old.
__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:43 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
Chris tree'd me. He's 'zakly right. A trick question at a gathering of Diesel fans - "How many HP does a Detroit 2-stroke make without a supercharger?" The answer is "zero" - They won't run. Most Diesel fans haven't messed with a DDA (Detroit Diesel Allison, the name of the company when they were making these) and so folks haven't any experience with them. We ran one on the dyno and it made a ton of lb/ft but was, as noted, VERY high in emissions.

Another Diesel trivia question though my info is a bit dated: Last I heard, Penske owned Detroit Diesel and was making them in MI. I did a tour of their emissions facility as we looked for a correlation offset between their lab and ours though I can't remember for the life of me what we finally determined.

Dan
In the 1930s the design was bought from Gray Marine.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page