engine heating options - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

allenying · #1 01-09-2017, 03:20 PM

hi, i'm trying to look into engine heating options.

does anyone have some recent info on webasto or other brand engine heaters, where to buy them, preferably 2nd hand?

i've read engine heaters can run on diesel, that works fine if i'm home and can bring a jug of diesel out from my apt, but if i'm on the road, say in the wilderness, the diesel will be in the car, and imagine also too cold to run the heater...

that brings me to wonder about modern portable batteries.
could they be used to power the block heater, which i read pulls 450 watts?

for example using batteries suitable for photography lighting gear:
https://www.paulcbuff.com/vagabond.php

or maybe stronger ones?
what do you guys think?

thanks.

Rogviler · #2 01-09-2017, 03:27 PM

When my "factory" block heater went out I started using a Kat's 24150, which is a pad that glues onto your oil pan. It's been working great and is only 150w. Still not self-fueled like it seems you're interested in but portable power would handle it a lot better.

Then there's always the Soviet way- Just build a small fire under it.

-Rog

dieselbenz1 · #3 01-09-2017, 04:24 PM

Webasto are installed to use the fuel directly from the fuel tank either gas or diesel. Just set the timer and everything warms up automatically.

allenying · #4 01-09-2017, 09:38 PM

is heating just the oil pan enough?
what about when it's cold enough for the fuel to gel?

allenying · #5 01-09-2017, 11:49 PM

i'm still looking into battery powered options, but i'm also wondering. if you used a small propane heater, either an indoor one, 1st attachment, or outdoor one, 2nd attachment.

where would be the best to point it? or just set it on the ground under the engine?

i know it sounds out there but i like to get out there ideas, sometimes they work well.

there are also small gasoline generators, like 700 watt,
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dirty-Hand-Tools-700-Running-Watts-Inverter-Portable-Generator-with-OEM-Engine/1000069293

Rogviler · #6 01-10-2017, 12:22 AM

If it's cold enough to gel your fuel than any kind of engine heater isn't going to help. Plenty of additives for that though.

But the oil pan heater started mine at ~0° when I was taking kids to school every day, and that was before some tinkering got it starting reliably without a heater in temps that it wouldn't before (haven't tried it at zero yet, however).

-Rog

allenying · #7 01-10-2017, 12:36 AM

i have a gallon of biodiesel in a clear plastic jug in my trunk. it's solid at the moment.

on sunday i spent 1.5 hours on glow plugs getting the engine to start. i know, not good, which is why i'm looking for an alternative. i don't know if the nearly full tank was actually gelled, partially or fully. after i got it going, i added the cold flow improver additive and i drove all day.

monday, same 25F temperature, the car started after the regular 30s or so glow plug action. it was about 14 hours after i parked the car the night before. i don't know if the additive made all the difference, or driving it all day yesterday, or being in the sun in the morning helped, or what.

but basically want something that's more guaranteed that isn't so bad for the glow plugs.

i think i'm gonna try one of the propane heaters, just not sure if the 3000 BTU one is too weak, or if the 10,000 BTU one is too strong... i'm gonna call the makers to find out.

funola · #8 01-10-2017, 09:46 AM

If your gallon jug of bio is gelled that means the fuel supply/return lines under the car are also gelled. If you are able to heat the engine sufficiently to get it started, it will stall immediately from fuel starvation. The engine heating will be wasted effort.

The anti gel additive you put in is made from Petroleum and probably not cheap. Why not just add a percentage of diesel appropriate for the temperature as anti gel? Or to be safe, not knowing how much diesel to add, run 100% diesel.

Forget about using the battery you linked to heat the engine. It does not have sufficient power.

Forget about the propane heaters you linked to also. It will heat mostly space outside the engine compartment unless you have it well blocked off and insulated. It is also a fire hazard and could set your engine on fire if it is greasy with oil leaks, melt hoses and wires if too close.

strelnik · #9 01-10-2017, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogviler

When my "factory" block heater went out I started using a Kat's 24150, which is a pad that glues onto your oil pan. It's been working great and is only 150w. Still not self-fueled like it seems you're interested in but portable power would handle it a lot better.

Then there's always the Soviet way- Just build a small fire under it.

-Rog

In the 1950s people used to put four 100W bulbs in a 6" crate that was open at the top. The four bulbs were in a container that matched the size of the oil pan. The intent was to heat the oil in the days before multi-viscosity synthetics. If the engine can turn faster, it can generate enough heat to start. When the oil is like molasses, too much juice is needed by the battery to turn the engine over, nothing happens no matter how hot the cylinders are.

I have also seen people used a layer of charcoal briquettes in a metal pan made for the purpose.

strelnik · #10 01-10-2017, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

If your gallon jug of bio is gelled that means the fuel supply/return lines under the car are also gelled. If you are able to heat the engine sufficiently to get it started, it will stall immediately from fuel starvation. The engine heating will be wasted effort.

The anti gel additive you put in is made from Petroleum and probably not cheap. Why not just add a percentage of diesel appropriate for the temperature as anti gel? Or to be safe, not knowing how much diesel to add, run 100% diesel.

Forget about using the battery you linked to heat the engine. It does not have sufficient power.

Forget about the propane heaters you linked to also. It will heat mostly space outside the engine compartment unless you have it well blocked off and insulated. It is also a fire hazard and could set your engine on fire if it is greasy with oil leaks, melt hoses and wires if too close.

Diesel is a great and less expensive additive, so is kerosene.

Mike D · #11 01-10-2017, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

I have also seen people used a layer of charcoal briquettes in a metal pan made for the purpose.

Yup, the old Cummins "pre-heaters". All the old time truck maintenance shops in the Mid-west used to have them sitting in the back room. Cut off 55 gallon drums with a mesh grill in them and a pull handle. Couldn't use them on the Detroit because of all the oil leaks. I remember many a miserable morning dragging them around from truck to truck.

moon161 · #12 01-10-2017, 10:42 AM

One subzero night, I lit a small propane grille, put a cookie sheet over the top to keep any oil and flames from mixing and snuck it under my 190D. That worked out. If your concern is a starting aid in the middle of nowhere, that might be the thing. Tie your lighter to it with a string, and put a spare someplace safe.

funola · #13 01-10-2017, 10:55 AM

If you're out in the sticks and can't get your diesel started but there's plenty of dry branches and rocks. Build a big fire and heat up a bunch of rocks for a few hours to stay warm. Push the rocks under the engine and block the front and sides of the car with whatever you can gather (snow, evergreen boughs, dead braches etc). In an hour or so the engine will be warm enough to start.

Sweat lodges were heated with hot rocks and water and can get up to 120 -140F. I was at a camp out years ago and we had a big bon fire. I was car camping and as the night wore on, it got down to below freezing. When it was bed time I got one of the many football sized rocks by the fire, wrapped it in a bath towel and put it in the car. It got so hot in there I had to open the windows.

kerry · #14 01-10-2017, 12:09 PM

Unless you live in the Arctic, from a cost/efficiency point of view (Webastos are pretty expensive and only serve one purpose), I think it's better to buy a small gasoline generator and use it to power an electric block heater when you need it. A Honda 2k would set you back about $600 or so and can be used for other purposes than just warming up a diesel in winter.

Also, there are portable propane showers available which circulate water thru the heater with a small pump. Plumbing one of those into your coolant system would also work I think.

funola · #15 01-10-2017, 12:26 PM

He wants to run biodiesel in winter, a Honda generator to run a block heater will not do the job. He needs to be able to heat the engine + the rest of the fuel system which includes the fuel lines, fuel filters, and fuel tank.