I put 50 mi on today. I'm in no big hurry as I have plenty of cars to drive and can plan things and lean towards highway trips of at least 30 minutes. The shake is still there so no obvious help from the Diesel Purge. There was enough sediment in the small plastic filter that it stopped up when I went to four the fuel out. Is it worth doing another Purge as time allows or is that likely a waste?

What about getting a glow plug reamer for the next time plugs are out? I stuck a drill bit in by hand and didn't stir up much stuff but also wasn't aggressive with the bit since the GP threads were exposed and I haven't seen the back side of a head in a long time and didn't want to chance making more work.

The car starts immediately with 1 glow in mid to upper 30* temps. It probably would start fine in lower temps but I can't test now. I have a can of Mystery Oil on the shelf and will dump it into the fuel.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

It will do no harm to dump the miracle mystery oil in the fuel tank. Personally I would drive the car for awhile or at least till the valves stop needing frequent adjustment before proceeding.


The engine should have smoothed out a little. A verified two mill volt differential was greater than I had ever seen before and you had two cylinders with that. .Or so uncommon I do not remember it.


The compression test will probably still be needed down the road. I have been trying to provide guidance to separate the injection pump as having issues versus the engine itself. Or something else.


By you doing a valve adjustment and purge at the same time I am uncertain of the effect of either one. . You appear to have had a valve issue and still may until they clean up. A normal engine does not require a lot of valve adjustments in your short period of ownership. That the cylinders are now running at a better overall comparison temperature was a good thing. .


Or did the solvent in the injection pump clean some delivery valves improving them that caused this? When the engine valves settle down a compression check can be done that should still decide the issue if needed.


Your car is probably a lower milage example than most. That lessens the chances of multiple problems but does not eliminate the possibility. When the valves settle down a compression check will be a pretty solid indication of what it is.


There is no way to easily compensate for compression issues that are well past the allowable limits.


At this time there is still no solid indication. Using milli volts takes some thought. Step by step is almost unavoidable in the process.


Personally I suspect you are starting to understand this. As soon as you veer from the step by step process you usually become uncertain of the next step. simply because you have left an unknown behind.


I have been thinking what milli volts might present with say a bad delivery valve. There will be no absolute as the leakage of any given valve will vary. In general though I think the injector will inject later. So the cylinder will be retarded in timing.


On the other hand any backflow of fuel that may have otherwise escaped through the return system might increase the timing on that cylinder by pre filling the element a little. . Resulting in an earlier injection and higher cylinder temperature. So for the present until more data is collected we just do not know what to expect. Or at least I do not.


The simple act of replacing the spring that aids closing the valve has seemed to make a change alone. So to me the delivery valve function overall is quite critical. Then we get to factor in the elements decent. In a decent if no fuel can be obtained from a leaking delivery valve a light vacuum is probably formed. This may even help the new fuel loading of the element.


Now back to conventional servicing alone. He has done what he has done. Yet there was a change only detectable by the milli volts. It was a good change. Just did not identify the underlying problem.


With using milli volts in combination with convention servicing every time you ignore a step. Most times you still know more but the problem is not narrowed down. The systematic approach on the other hand eliminates potential causes. The more you believe in the system and practice it the faster it gets in application.


It is just an opinion but this engine should have smoothed out a little at least with the new milli volt readings. I wonder about air getting into the fuel supply as well now? Air ingress does not seem to change milli volt readings but can make an engine idle rough.


What I do expect with some driving and valve adjustments until they are not frequently required. The milli volt readings may close up even more.


Then a compression check and if good and the milli volts are then start looking for air. Right now the milli volts are much improved but the spreads are still of some concern. Any spread verified of more than .5 milli volt usually should be looked into as the owner usually notices something is not right.


Bad delivery valves should present a voltage differential as they have an effect on engine running. Mill volts are far more sensitive that one can imagine. On a flat road with a milli volt reader in the car. You will see a voltage difference when driving with a headwind or a tailwind on a flat road. At the same speed with a moderate wind.

On a car with that low of total overall milage. The problems are well worth chasing down. You will need a piece of clear plastic tubing installed on the return line from the injection pump at some point.


To verify there is not an air problem in the fuel as well. The idle should have been somewhat better with the newer milli volt readings. The original milli volt readings indicated you had problems other than air.


Those problems where helped enough to have made at least some change in the idle probable. As far as I know only air in the fuel can cause no change in milli volt readings.


If you have it or not the voltages remain basically as they are. If you have the old style primer pump get a small balloon stretched over it to seal it. The old style has a white handle. They are notorious for developing the source of an air leak into the fuel.

HF has a 90 day return policy. You call that short? You didn't test it under water before use as I suggested? Would have saved you the wasted time using it. Next one you get, assemble it with the correct adapter and use a rubber blow gun tip on your air compressor to pressurize the gauge. It should hold pressure w/o leaks. If it leaks, immerse it under water (except the gauge) and watch where the bubbles are from. If from the adapter tip, that's where the schrader valvee sits and could be as simple as tightening it a bit. If the leak is at the quick coupler, there is an o-ring inside which may not be sitting right.

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Ahhh, you removed the lines, I was wondering why you said no fuel spurted out of the IP.

FYI, I do the compression test without removing the lines. With my modified HF compression tester, I can take a compression reading on cyl 1 to 4 in less than 3 minutes each. #5 about 15 minutes. I've posted a video of it.

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Sorry about my last post. I had too much on my mind. I had my yearly re check for cancer the next morning. Plus I thought I was going to have a non cancerous operation as well.


At least as in most the long years since the first cancer operation it had not reoccurred yet. Only once had it returned plus one other operation for something he was suspicious of that was not cancerous in the same organ.


It was not until I got off the operating table that I realized that this time had had a prior mental effect on me worse than usual. Normally I just have a slight apprehension that the cancer may be back alone. He decided on another way around the other problem that did not involve an operation as well. So hopefully I can get back to some semblance of normal now.

Hang tough Barry ~

That's a scary ride for anyone .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

@ Barry, Yes, severe illnesses hang on your mind even when they go away but "might" return. It changes your life.

I'll drive the car. I'll also adjust the valves again. I took milivolt readings and #2 & 5 appear to be dropping - but not back to the original readings. It will be a few days before I can do a valve adjustment. It's raining and I just saw 2 Mercedes 300 cars listed at one of the years. I want the seats & other misc parts even if they aren't diesels.

I put all of the readings taken into a spreadsheet and copied below. What was done between recordings is in the spreadsheet too and I'll keep better records & not enumerate for now. Basically, valve adjust, purge, fuel filters brought them up. Now #2 dropped but not back to original levels and #5 is still lower than the 3 higher cylinders.

02/11/17 02/11/17 02/12/17 02/14/17 02/25/17 02/27/17


1 9.3 9.1 9.1 9.0 9.3 9.2
2 7.0 7.2 7.9 7.9 9.7 8.3
3 9.0 9.0 8.7 8.6 9.6 9.5
4 9.5 9.5 9.6 8.9 10.0 9.8
5 7.0 7.0 7.0 7.3 8.4 8.3

@Funola, I missed your suggestion of measuring after fuel is cut. I'll do it at the next reading just to have the data.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

You are actually doing much better. The overall voltage drop is not important in what you are seeking. Instead it shows the operational temperatures of the cylinders are closing up or becoming more similar to each other in reality. This is a comparison system rather than any absolute values remember.


As a guess the purge did little. The effect of it if any does not keep improving once the purge is over. In general the situation is improving.


For years it has been generally accepted that doing an Italian tune up has made these engines run better. All that really did was to get excess carbon buildups eliminated. In your case it may have been severe buildup from only around town use of the engine by a past owner.


Just for general clarification. You are posting six numbers on a five cylinder engine. I take it the first number is an overall average reading of all the glow plugs?

Numbers should be read vertically and got squished together. I should have attached the file.

Attached Files

GlowPlug Milivolts_84SD.pdf (21.8 KB, 61 views)

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

I should have spotted that. With my comprehension now of the chart. It was embarrassing to not have noticed it. Just keep adjusting the valves after every fifty miles or so until the milli volts stabilize.


Extreme accuracy of valve adjustment is not the target. The continuing needing of frequent serious valve adjustments are.


As my mind sobers I really do not like the current spread in mili volt numbers even. But they are changing and will settle down. To what is an unknown yet.


If there is a lot of carbon in there. You may want to consider taking a spray bottle of water. Spray it in the intake with the filter cover off and engine running. This would aid in steam cleaning the carbon out. Plus may reduce the amount of times you have to pull the valve cover and check the clearances as well. That can get mentally fatiguing.

Water used in this fashion is a really old and tried concept. Using the spray bottle is just an insurance that too much water is not added too quickly. Once again the milli volts will indicate changes.

I can almost see some catch up type maintenance before looking for the real problem if the maintenance does not do it. For example you said some junk came out of the injection pump. Liquid molly is not that effective on a really dirty injection pump. A really good internal solvent soaking is. I also like the soaking concept as you do not run all the garbage through your injectors that are fairly fresh.

Your engine does not have enough miles that usually there will be serious compression or injection pump issues of the magnitude the milli volts are indicating. They could still be there but just not as likely.

Once again after any water spraying or steam cleaning if you wish the milli volts will show if there is any difference. It might just quicken up the process and reduce your workload.

We buy thirty year old cars that in general have not been properly cared for all too often. Until the use of milli volts comes on line it is much harder to pay attention to the needs.

Once you eventually get back to a solid base line. Any new troubles in the future will be isolated a lot quicker.

I finally had time to adjust the valves today 03/17. Valve 3 = intake on cyl 2 was too tight and the gauge wouldn't even go in until it was loosened. None of the others needed adjustment.

I measured milivolts a on 03/12 after a good drive then parked the car until adjusting the valves today. I measured milivolts after adjusting the valves after the car idled and temp gauge showed 80* C. I didn't have a chance to go for a drive before taking the milivolt reading today.

I also checked for chain stretch. I'll shrink & attach later.

Attached Files

GlowPlug Milivolts 03.18.2017.pdf (38.0 KB, 80 views)

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Things milli volt wise seem to be getting better with use. No benefit from driving before reading. At least that occurs to me. Just as long as the engine is up to operational temperatures to read the milli volts.


There may be something going on with the number one cylinder but it is still too early to absolutely assume that. It is not internal to the engine unless it is carbon.


An example. If you originally had a really bad injector on the number one cylinder causing carbon buildup. As all the milli volts get closer to each other you should observe an improvement in idle.


Some things are changing anyways and it may just have been carbon was on the valves. Also part of it is the purge may have helped. Certainly the number one cylinder indication is not low compression on that cylinder..


What I do not know and cannot get a clear picture of is a bad delivery valve causes a higher or lower cylinder temperature. Initially I suspected it should be cooler but am a little confused in this area.


Currently that number one cylinder is operating hotter but may come down with driving. What I do not think may be causing the number one cylinder to be running hotter. Is an upset in the sequential timing of the injector pump. When that is the situation there usually is a pronounced knock in the engine as well. With one voltage remaining much higher than the others.

It appears to still be dropping slowly and as long as that continues nothing else should be done.

From the first set of readings in general there has been a substantial improvement. Yours is a somewhat unusual situation.

How the timing chain is installed may be another issue. I still have the pics on my phone much too large to post but I lined up the marks on the cam and looked at the timing marks on the balancer.

It looks to me like 2* before TDC. Looking down from the front of the car, the indicator was to the driver's side of 0. I haven't looked up the specs but all of the pics I've seen are about 2* after TDC. There is a post on the balancer perhaps a trigger for the tach. The left most part of the timing indicator is almost tangent with the post.

_O Indicator at 12:00 as you're looking at it. About the width of the indicator is to the right of 0* on the balancer.

On some vehicles the harmonic balancer is made of 2 parts connected by a rubber ring. Sometimes the rubber deteriorates and the timing marks shift.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Primary cam timing even if off would effect all cylinders equally. There is always a reasonable suspicion present. When there may be a problem with the number one cylinder.


That it may have resulted from someone checking or setting the injection pump timing. Perhaps removing and replacing the delivery valve in the procedure and not using a new seal. Or over aggressive with tightening.


There are usually little paint marks present applied after the injection pump was calibrated. Have a careful look if they are still there. You are looking for any sign of disturbance. This would show if the original element calibration was disturbed or not as well.


You never know what someone else has done before we purchase these cars usually. Not a lot to gain by guessing right now.


Your milli volts have been changing in refferance to each other. I would wait until they appear to stabilize. Maybe they have it is just too early to tell. They have gotten much closer to each other in general even the high voltage cylinder seems to be closing down a little.


Personally I would just drive the car for some time until indication are there are no longer any milli volt changes occuring. In relationship to each other.


If you find another valve adjustment is needed on any valve again. You pretty much have to continue that cycle until it stops occurring. Fifty miles is more than enough between valve checks if it is carbon.


Also when you check the milli volts just letting the car warm up to an operational temperature first. To me is more of a constant in testing that variations of it.


There has been a lot of change but the cause of it is still unknown. Was it the purge or carbon? That last valve adjustment was really substantial for the miles you drove. Even if it was just the one valve.


For example if my wife had driven that car for years. I could almost guarantee it would have developed a carbon problem.

Changes so far. Cylinder 1-2 differential has dropped from 2.3 mv to .9mv. Cylinders 2-3 from 2 mv to .4 mv. cylinders 3-4 from .5 mv to .2mv. Cylinders 4-5 from 2.5 mv to .2 mv.


There are better ways to express this in chart form overall. The important thing is that this is a massive good overall change. So there is not much sense in looking elsewhere until those voltages seem to remain stable in refferance to each other..

I really dislike guessing. Yet if the overall low milage is accurate. The car may have had long periods of non use. Personally I would put a container of miracle mystery oil into the base oil as well. Then drive the car. Sticky partially carboned up rings may be also playing a part in this.


Normally I am not a fan of additives. At times there are exceptions though. For me your car might be one.


I have absolutely no ideal of why miracle mystery oil works as well as it does. It has been in the market place for a very long time and remains both a popular and well respected seller. Even the chemical components in it do not seem that special. Other than the turpentine component that I have not really looked into yet.


Also try to keep the milli volt faith. It is hard at times but overall followed properly it usually produces results. Yours is the most tedious one by far but things are still changing. No sense chasing anything else until what is occuring now totally settles down. There may be no other problem.