All,
I'm looking at a 280 w123 coupe and wanted opinions on the severity of the rust shown in the attached photo. I have a w123 300D but haven't had to deal with any rust or rot issues so I wouldn't know what I'm getting into. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Alex

Attached Thumbnails

 

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1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

If you can weld, that's really nothing at all. It's obviously going to be a lot bigger when you hit it with a grinder. That's the way rust always is! It's nothing that would deter me from buying the car if the rest of the actual frame is okay. If the suspension mounting points are all okay, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it and fix it. It will be expensive at a body shop though.

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Only diesels in this driveway.
2005 E320 CDI 243k Black/Black
2008 Chevy 3500HD Duramax 340k
2004 Chevy 2500HD Duramax 220k

Thanks for the feedback. I am most definitely not handy with a grinder or with welding so I'd have to pay to have it corrected. Does this rust/rot threaten anything structural? What would one pay to have it corrected at a shop? Thanks!!

Alex

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1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

One thing I learned with rust is that rust is normally more than what you can "see." Once you start grinding and cleaning up the area, you have to be vigilant that you are really getting all of it. Sometimes a tiny spot is just the tip of the iceberg and it will grow a lot until you hit "good" metal. Paper thin or the zillion tiny holes must go before you can weld in a patch panel. Not trying to jinx you or "scare you" just things I have learned along the way. BTW -- make sure you check under the battery tray.

For your geographical location it is not as advanced as usual. This also alone is not an indication of the general condition of the car rust wise. You really have to check the floors etc. very carefully as well.


For example in my even worse rustbelt area of eastern Canada it would be considered not bad. To a southerner an almost disaster. Just do not pay a premium price for a car like this.

After spending much of my life in Michigan, home of road salt, and now living in the South, I simply don't mess with rust anymore. If you don't own a car trailer rent one and come down South for a car with a decent body - it'll be cheaper in the long run. Two things kill cars - rust and electrical issues and you can eliminate the first one with thoughtful vehicle selection. Engines, transmissions, brakes, etc. are modules that can simply be swapped.

The guys have already warned that there's a ton more damage than you can see so I won't go into that other than to say I've welded many cars back together so I know all too well that they're right.

Can you fix this one? Sure. Will it: 1) Hold up and 2) Be worth the effort? That's not as clear.

Dan

Thanks again for all of the food for thought. Here's a link to the car on eBay. What do you think? Sent a bunch of questions late last night, haven't gotten a response.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300-Series Coupe | eBay

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1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

if those are fender flares painted to match, which they look to be, then the wheel arches are perforated. i agree with dan, its always rust or electrical that kill old cars. if you cant fix rust yourself, you cant afford it.

Never buy a car on ebay without either you doing a personal inspection or paying someone locally to do it. There just are too many liars out there to count when it comes to selling cars.

We drove a long distance one time to pick up a museum piece. The photos looked very good. When we see a car described as being in a condition like that we expect it to be pretty good.

He was right though. It did belong in a museum. A horror museum. It was the worse piece of junk I had ever seen of the model. Fortunately I never paid for a car until I see it back them. Never even a deposit.

This cars pluses are the stronger version of the 110 engine and I think it is also fuel injected. They had real carborator issues on that model so this is better.

I am not certain but fuel milage is not a strong point with older Mercedes gas cars in general. Also take the claimed overall milage with a grain of salt.

Anyone inspecting this car for you that really knows Mercedes will fill you in. If you decide to go this way at least get a picture of the drivers seat posted and another of the general interior. Before engaging anyone to look it over properly.

More members of this site have been burnt at one time or another than they care to admit.

So the cost if you were to prevail. Would have to include a probable charge for inspection plus your traveling to get it. What is it worth? Depends on a proper inspection and some research. Not on some random photos of a repainted exterior.


Finally on average a person should be a pretty good do it yourself mechanic type to own older Mercedes. Or the bills to farm out things could kill you financially. The quoted delay in engagement of the transmission is not the best either. The guy could even be fairly honest but that does not mean he knows Mercedes products well.


It is almost remarkable that the blue dash pad is not cracked. I assume that vinyl seats on the euro versions where an option. Cloth seats where standard or in most examples we see of them over here. Those are probably optional front seats or they have been replaced. Or recovered.

Barry makes some good points.

Let me add here that from my experience quite a few folks aren't evil but they really don't know anything. I can't tell you how many cars I've looked at that the owner claimed to be "restored" when in fact they had taken it to MAACO (or similar) for an overall paint job. I've tried to educate them that a "restoration" has been torn down to the last nut and bolt, everything returned to its "as built" condition, everything is refinished with its factory finish, then the car is reassembled and adjusted as it would have left the factory. They stand there with their mouths open and those who can listen are astonished. When I talk about how much it costs to have a project like that done professionally (depending on parts prices, about $100,000 the last I looked into it) they begin to understand that a new MAACO job is NOT a restoration. I'm old enough and have enough credentials that they usually accept my information as correct which makes the lesson easier for them to believe.

My point is that common folks (non-car people) just don't know. So the ads on CL or Ebay or wherever may well be misguided and not sneaky or underhanded. Not to say that there aren't plenty of those, too.

This actually makes your job as a potential buyer harder. These folks really BELIEVE that they're selling a "restored" car and having seen ads for "restored" examples think they're practically giving it away. I suspect that this is especially true if the marque is a premium brand like Mercedes.

From my point of view, rust is rust and junk is junk whether or not it started out as a premium car. Sadly, entropy is immutable.

Dan

Most body shops won't deal with fixing rust as customers won't pay what the job is really worth. The shops are making good $ fixing crashed cars and getting paid more or less promptly by insurance companies.

Welding in metal at home isn't terribly difficult, it is very time consuming once you consider developing a repair strategy, prep work / interior / part removal , bending metal , welding it in , painting the reassembly.

This is what I've found to be very much true during my (long ongoing) efforts to fix my 300D, which isn't nearly as rusty as some cars I've seen. Welding itself is a tiny proportion of the repair. Disassembly for access, cutting or drilling out rust, figuring out the best way to repair it, removing undercoating, grinding, bending, fabricating, fitting, and rustproofing the repair are the hard part and why I am just taking forever on it (and took a break from working on it for a few weeks). Of course, I'm sure people with more experience than me get more efficient. But it's still a lot of work. So I understand why I could never find a bodyshop that wanted to do it.
That said, it is doable. The rust in your picture looks like it'd be fixable but kind of a pain (involves multiple panels). My concern would be that usually when there's rust like that in one spot, there's more, everywhere. But it's for sure not the worst thing I've seen.

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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

The car in that listing doesn't have any extra fender flares added, painted or not.

If that is all the rust, then it's not that bad I guess. But you aren't going to get any rust fixed at a decent shop for less than 4 or 5 hundred - if they'll do it at all. You don't really know where it ends until you start grinding off the undercoating and start looking inside. I wouldn't buy a car on ebay sight unseen with these limited photographs. I'd need to see a LOT more photos. BTW, florida cars aren't "rust free" by default - like CA or Arizona, etc. They rust plenty down there. Also, this is originally a Euro-car.... where in Europe? They rust plenty in europe. I'd steer clear. You can get a diesel coupe for 5 grand from somewhere in the southwest with a normal steering wheel. There is one on "bring a trailer" right now, same color.

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Andrew
Montclair, NJ
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1982 300D Turbo
120k
Petrol Blue Green

Thanks once again for all of the feedback, especially for all of the time you put into these responses. This is definitely the model I want, color, euro, gas and all (heresy here I know), but I'm ultimately going to pass on it (as of this moment). I would have only put in an offer of $3,800, and even if it only lasted a few years, I would have been happy, but I'm worried about all of the worst case scenarios, not just because of what it might cost me, but the time involved. I also have first hand experience with not being able to find a shop who will work on non-quick turnaround collision work, so I don't have someone on hand to turn to if I bought this and it turned out that it needed more work that suggested.

I completely agree with the feedback about seeing a car before committing to purchase it. Unfortunately I'll just never have time to do that if it's outside of a small radius, and I'd probably rather not buy something near me if I can help it.

What put the nail in the coffin on this one for me was that I asked a number of questions and the seller selectively answered only a few. Also, I am always skeptical about cars that have to be listed because a previous auction winner backed out. I know people are flakes, but still, you have to wonder if they saw the car and then walked away.

Anyway, thanks for everything. I'm now tracking that 300CD on BaT. I'd be just as happy with another diesel (probably happier).

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1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

One more thing. Rust is one thing in the under-body and fender well, etc. But it's another on daily-use items like subframes. My subframe made my car's wheel flare outward as though my car had excessive negative camber. The subframe was cracked due to rust. I had to have it welded, and even that was a ghetto fix. A new subframe on these cars is $1600 for the rear (it's more of a 'trailing arm' than a subframe) and used ones START at $300+ not including installation, which is a 2-3 hour job. Food for thought

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