Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
E300D - can't clear b1419 code

AC quit cooling, so I pulled the CC data and error codes. The data all looked good except for a 6 bar reading on refrigerant. I also got three error codes:

B1226, B1234, and B1419.

I read where dropping below 7 bar or so on the #7 reading for refrigerant, it will shut the compressor down, which explains the 1419. So saw on a post where a guy said clear the codes and just fill er up with a can from auto parts store. I got 1226 and 1234 to clear but 1419 will not. And with it shut down I can not fill er up with some 134. I'm not worried about the sun sensor, but I don't want to go down the cabin temp sensor rabbit hole until I can confirm it, but can't do that without getting compressor clutch to kick in.

Any idea why 1419 will not clear? Any other ideas? Thanks in advance - this forum is the best.

__________________

1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-16-2018, 04:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
The first step in diagnosis is to post a detailed description of the trouble codes.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:03 AM
jay_bob's Avatar
Control Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 3,941
B1419 is the electromagnetic clutch protection on the compressor.

Two causes:
Easier: the thermal sensor in the clutch failed, it does happen
Harder: the thermal sensor did its job and protected you from a shredded belt when the compressor seized.

With the engine off, grab the center of the compressor hub and try to rotate it (clockwise like the engine goes). If it spins it may well just be a failed thermo sensor.

But if it is tight it’s time for a new compressor, condenser and evaporator.

My story W210 compressor seized
__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older sonís DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-17-2018, 09:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
My point in pushing someone for detailed code description when they post just numbers is:

They are not doing any of their home work.

They don't fully understand what has failed, detailed codes narrow things down quite a bit.

" I bought a scan tool and the codes tell me exactly what part to change. "
In reality, codes tell you what tests to perform not what part to change.

An example of this is " I've got an oxygen sensor code, I changed the sensor and it didn't fix the problem. I took the sensor back as defective and the replacement does the same thing. "

The reality is there may be many codes related to an oxygen sensor but problems with wiring / fuses could trigger a code. An example of this would be a sensor heater code caused my a broken wire in the cars harness.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:17 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The slums of Beverly Hills
Posts: 8,065
As Jay bob said, it's a clear cut and dry case. Your thermal fuse is toast. On my 97 I had a hell of a time replacing the clutch coil but I did it on the car without pulling the compressor of radiator. I eventually replaced the coil with a Toyota coil which doesn't have the thermal fuse. The thermal fuse was only found on the Mercedes version of this Denso compressor. As usual Mercedes added an extra layer of unnecessary complexity and expense with the thermal fuse to a component that was already reliable.

Theres just enough clearance between the AC clutch and radiator to remove the 10mm bolt holding it in place. This picture was taken after the new clutch was installed, hence the crimped wires.


Clutch and coil removed. The compressor and the area around it were covered in red brown dust from the failed clutch. I'm guessing its been dead for a while and also the reason why the car was so cheap.


The new clutch and pulley that came off a 97 C230 at the JY. $10. I found some vendors online that sell the clutch for about $140 but I'm not sure if it includes the coil. I also wasn't convinced about the quality of their product.


The "new" C230 coil left and old E300D coil right. The black thing in the orange potting is the thermal fuse. The new coil had 3.6ohm resistance while the old one was infinite dead circuit.


Old coil. Unfortunately the thermal fuse in the foreground is out of focus. It had a small cut or crack on both ends. Heat from the slipping clutch really did a number on this coil. You can also see the scratches where the failed bearing allowed the old pulley to wobble.


After a one summer the c230 coil thermal fuse also failed but the clutch was still fine. I bought a Toyota coil without the fuse. All RWD Toyota and Lexus products from the same era used the exact same compressor but without the fuse. 4 years later and I haven't had any AC problems since.
__________________
CENSORED due to not family friendly words

Last edited by tjts1; 06-17-2018 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-17-2018, 02:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
Thanks!

One reason I did not feel the need to include the detailed description is because I would prefer responses from people who have had to deal with this exact problem. Anyone who has had to fix a "electromagnetic clutch" problem would know immediately what 1419 means.

Thanks for all the input Quick update. As is always the case with an older car, there's a twist in this story I discovered. The car was involved in a minor fender bender. When it happened, I did a close inspection to make sure the car was drivable, which everything checked out. Well, discovered that the fan shroud was jarred loose and periodically makes contact with the front pulley on the compressor. I discovered this when I reached in there to see if the pulley would rotate with the engine off, which it does. So, new question - It's a periodic gentle rub - but enough to have carved out a about a two inch slit in the shroud. I'm guessing this could be the culprit in heating up the sensor causing the compressor to shut down and throw the 1419 code. Since the pulley rotates that is good indicator that it's just the thermal fuse, correct?

Thoughts?
__________________

1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-17-2018, 04:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 312
i just replaced the ac compressor in my 98 a denso sb17 with the later model sbu17 for 230 shipped. Also did the drier, hose, pressure switch and temp switch.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-17-2018, 04:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIESL View Post
One reason I did not feel the need to include the detailed description is because I would prefer responses from people who have had to deal with this exact problem. Anyone who has had to fix a "electromagnetic clutch" problem would know immediately what 1419 means.

There are hundreds of trouble codes across the engine / trans / body computers. Trying to find someone that has dealt with a specific code could be more difficult with obscure codes, however, a skilled mechanic can read a detailed description and form a plan of attack.

Some codes can interact, without understanding how a system works, one could be changing parts that don't need changed.

You are also ignoring the other codes in the system, are you going to wait for someone that had performed that specific repair or gain knowledge to figure it out for yourself?

My point is or the asker to learn how to decipher codes rather than just googeling it looking for a "tell me what to change" reply.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-17-2018, 05:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The slums of Beverly Hills
Posts: 8,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIESL View Post
Well, discovered that the fan shroud was jarred loose and periodically makes contact with the front pulley on the compressor. I discovered this when I reached in there to see if the pulley would rotate with the engine off, which it does. So, new question - It's a periodic gentle rub - but enough to have carved out a about a two inch slit in the shroud. I'm guessing this could be the culprit in heating up the sensor causing the compressor to shut down and throw the 1419 code. Since the pulley rotates that is good indicator that it's just the thermal fuse, correct?

Thoughts?
The 1419 code is triggered by lack of continuity in the clutch circuit so either the coil has failed or the wiring to it failed. I think it's unlikely the plastic fan shroud caused it to fail but anything is possible I guess. My second coil from the c230 failed for no reason at all. It could be just that your clutch is slipping creating a lot of heat in which case you can adjust the shims to bring the clutch gap back into spec (1mm I think) after replacing the coil.

Anyway my point is, don't worry too much why it failed. It can fail without warning for no good reason. Do the test that Jay bob suggested. Reach up from underneath and turn the compressor hub by hand. It should turn smoothly without any binding or weird noises. If you encounter any I would just replace the whole compressor. Before installing it replace the coil with a Toyota one without the thermal fuse. You can do what I did and just replace the coil on the car but I have to warn you, the lock rings holding in the pulley and coil are a huge PITA to access on the car.
__________________
CENSORED due to not family friendly words
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-17-2018, 06:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 463
You can do what I did and just replace the coil on the car but I have to warn you, the lock rings holding in the pulley and coil are a huge PITA to access on the car.

I was feeling optimistic until I saw this. I reached down from above and was able to move the center hub on the compressor, which made me think the unit is ok and that the fuse or clutch failed. Would you mind sharing the details of PITA? Thanks!
__________________

1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-17-2018, 06:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The slums of Beverly Hills
Posts: 8,065
Once you have the fan and shroud out of the way you need to remove the 10 mm bolt on the front of the Hub. You have a couple of inches of clearance so it's not too bad. That will allow you to remove the clutch from the front of the pulley. Next you need lock ring pliers that are angled to 90į.
http://i.imgur.com/WjRgVVw.jpg
The arms need to reach inside the pulley about an inch to an inch and a half. But you're completely blind, you can't see the lock ring inside because it's facing the radiator and you are up above the car or below. So you have to attach a mirror to the radiator at a 45 degree angle and aim a flashlight at it to actually see the lock ring inside the pulley. If after a hundred tries you get that lock ring out you'll be able to remove the pulley. After that there is a second lock ring that holds in the coil behind the pulley. Same procedure as above. You could make your life easier by removing the radiator so you have a couple of extra inches of clearance in front of the pulley.

The other option of course is have the system evacuated remove the compressor from the car, replace the coil on a bench reinstall the compressor, or replace the whole damn compressor. When I ran into this problem 5 years ago everyone told me there's no way the compressor can still be good if the coil failed. That's clearly not true but replacing the coil on the car sucks... a lot. I don't want to give you false hopes.
__________________
CENSORED due to not family friendly words

Last edited by tjts1; 06-17-2018 at 06:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-17-2018, 09:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 312
On an e300, remove the washer tank. Remove the power steering pulley then remove remove the ps mounting bolts. Move the pump over. You can have the a.c. compressor out in 3 mins.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page