Alright guys so I've put 20k literally care free enjoyable miles on my 240D. It's needed nothing other than routine maintenance and I've been very proactive about replacing pretty much all the rubber hoses (fuel & coolant related) and belts when I got it as to avoid problems from old rubber parts.

I'm checking out an 83 Diesel rabbit sat that I'm hoping to replace my 240D with.
I love the 240D and want to keep it out of winters path since the roads are so heavily salted in PA. I also don't love street parking it and would prefer to keep it in my parents garage when not in use.

So.. I'm not afraid of DIY work and am at this point used to the issues a 30+ year old car may have. My basic concern is that I know nothing about VW diesels and am curious if they are built as tough as MB diesels?

Thoughts? Are the injection systems similar?

thanks!

I had an 80 Dasher diesel. Same engine.
It's a converted gas engine. Not built strong like a Mercedes.
Has a timing belt, interference engine. I believe it has 46hp.
Needs a 5spd. AC really bogs it down.
FWD is a plus for winter. I always got 42-44mpg. Fun to drive once you get it revved up. Don't remember the injection details. Mine blew a head gasket and I got rid of it.

There's a couple differences to be aware of. The VW uses a timing belt and a rotary injection pump. They use the same 115 bar injectors as the OM616 and N/A OM617. I have a couple injectors with VW and Audi logos on them in my stash of eclectic things. If the timing belt is aged and there's no record of its replacement, consider replacing it proactively. The early VW diesels were indirect injection like the OM616 you're familiar with, but instead of a prechamber like Mercedes used, VW went with a swirl chamber. Similar concept, different execution. The VW design is definitely more "modern" than the Mercedes design.

In the late 80s and early 90s, the VW Rabbits were everywhere around here. Gas and diesel alike. I haven't seen a Rabbit of any flavor in several years though. It could just be down to them not having the same following as the Mercedes cars of the same era. I live in a town of roughly 20K people, and not a day goes by that you don't see at least one W123 or W126. Always a diesel.

__________________
Current stable:
1995 E320 149K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 120K (SLoL)

Black Sheep:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

I'm dealing with issues on a MK3 Tdi right now.

This is what I will say:

The engineering on the Mercedes was absolute genius, especially for the time period and everything was made to the highest possible standard. Parts are still readily available (new OEM, new aftermarket, used, rebuilt) for the Mercedes. There is probably more on the car to be maintained, but it will IMO last longer. The VW did still have some engineering issues like the head gasket. The regular timing belt issue IMO is just stupid, especially every 60K miles. IMO, a diesel should have a timing chain. Many of the Mercedes diesels have gone 300K+ miles on the original timing chain. In addition, there are just so many additional points of failure on the VW. I just had to have mine towed home because the power steering hose broke. That is an OEM part that is no longer available anywhere. The power steering belt turns the water pump so I can't drive without it. Overall, even if you can live with the VW issues, I think the lack of easy parts availability will keep that car sitting while you wait for parts to install. My 1984 Mercedes 300D has been a daily driver for almost five years and it has been in continuous service.

Dkr.

Wait until you drive a Rabbit diesel. From what I remember, just wondering when will the dash board fall off in my lap, it shook so bad.

That car may not be practical for you. The volkswagon diesels before the TDIs do need the block heater in really cold weather to start reliably in the morning. Although PA may not get as cold as I think it might be .

If the engine is a little tired with time will also compound the issue. Your state is not rust free either I believe. Rust did a lot of them in.

This is definitely one of my concerns. Last winter we had some pretty cold days where it got into the single digits. I was able to get my 240D started with some extra cranking even when my starter was going out. This rabbit has 230K so I'm curious as to how much life can be expected from that motor or if it's likely to have been rebuilt.

the difference is money - the mercedes cost 4X the vw new



vw diesel forums will tell you exactly how to fix EVERYTHING on that car

Cheap to fix, cheap to own, but neglect them and they fall apart.



Mecerdes forums hardly talk about rebuilding injection pumps, doing timing chains or other things that don't fail very often. Reliable in general, but some repairs go beyond what most people can handle. Plus they are much heavier so don't get as good of mileage. Safer in a collision,

__________________
1985 300TD 1981 Scirocco 1.6D conv 1986 Golf 1.6D 2003 Golf TDI

I do not think there should be any consistency of expectations and recommendations on really old cars. Simply because their general condition can vary all over the place. There will be a few really good examples remaining and many that are on their very last legs. With some in the middle ground as well. So individual experiences will vary. With purchasing any of them.


Surveys indicate that early 90s Toyota camrys may be one of the best cars ever built for reliability and lack of issues. Also lasting on average a full five years longer in service than any other car. I think if I was on the lookout for a cheaper winter beater I might try to locate one. A lower milage one in decent condition at that age currently should not have much of a premium in cost over any other.


I am not certain but the depreciation curve on vehicles may be accelerating. The demand for older used cars is probably declining as few want to bear the cost of paid for service they will require.


My brother in law buys a lot of older cars with issues. Repairs them and re sells them. He just tells the vendors what they are worth to him and lands up bringing them home most of the time.


I am also somewhat of a Volkswagon fan for many years. As is my brother in law. We both feel that the 1985 and 1986 Volkswagon diesel jettas with the five speed and turbos where about the best overall product they ever turned out in many ways.


The problems they developed where reasonably predictable. Cheap to deal with and pretty easy to repair. There are almost none left locally because of our rustbelt area.


Locally the vast majority of cars on the road are not more than a few years old. Plus so many brands have produced basically bad product in the last decade or so. People are steering clear of many of the brands when they become used cars with some years on them. They were major headaches when still pretty new. Time and milage will not have improved them.

Apart from rust, this is do able but don't expect it to last long in the salt .

*IF* you do all the various maintenance things and use Diesel kleen and remember to do the full glow plug cycle and maintain a healthy battery, the Rabbit will indeed start right up in the coldest of weather you'll experience .

Both my Brothers had these and loved them, one lived in Maine next to the ocean so it got really old yet always started right up using the twice cycle and so on .

Yes, they shake a lot, even when everything is *perfect* but usually a valve adjustment and IP timing check will reduce 80 % of the really bad shaking .

Slow but the 40 + MPG is very nice .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

I did not read all of the posts so some of this could be repeats. My 82 Volvo Diesel; the Engine is made by VW and is sort of s 6 cylinder VW Rabbit Engine.

On the Volvo Version you need to remove the Cranshaft Damper to remove the shielding to change the Timing Belt due to the lower part of the shield. Someone who has owned a VW Rabbit diesel will have say if that is so or not on the Rabbit.

To adjust the Valve clearance you need a Tool to push down the Tappet and another to grab onto a shim plate to pry it out. You change the clearance by using different thicknesses of plates.

There is tools for setting the timing of the Camshaft and Fuel Injection Pump. A plate for the Camshaft and a plug that goes into the Fuel Injection Pump Drive Gear.

There is an additional Tool for setting the timing that screws into Fuel Injection Pump and uses a dial indicator to set the begin of injection.

While the Rotary Distrubator type Fuel Injection Pump is tougher then the Stanadyne/Roosamaster types used on the GM and Ford Diesels. The Drive End of the Fuel Injection Pump has a Lip Seal on it.

On my Volvo I had to change that Lip Seal X3 since 1992. Apparenlty the chemical changes in Diesel Fuel shortend the life of the seals.

You need to pull of the dive gear and the Fuel Injection Pump. However, you can remove the seal with out taking the Fuel Injection Pump apart as there is a way to grind on a cheap screwdriver to make a tool to pop out the seal.

However, the last seal that leaked was a viton seal and the lip material cracked all they way around. Making me suspect there was another issue.

Which for DIY brings up the weak point in the design of the Fuel Injection Pump design. The drive shaft of the IP is supported on 2 Bushings. If the bushings are worn out your seal is going to leak.

Unfotunately the Bushings are undersized and supposed to be reamed or machined to the proper size and the clearance is small. To change the Bushings the whole Fuel Injection Pump has to carefully taken apart (and of course later reassembled).

When I was going to do mine I researched what others had done on the VW Forums bought adjustable reamers and new bushings (which are cheap).
Then I realized the only way it was going to work is if I made something to guide the Reamer and at that point I chicked out.

Another issue is that the change in the chemical make up of the Diesel has caused issues with the parts that ride on the Aluminum housing. The Ford And GM Diesls that use rotary pumps have a similar issue. They bot have parts that ride on the housing to advance the timing and the housings wear out faster then they did woth the older diesel fuel.

I bought a Use VW Rabbit Fuel Injection Pump and I used the Housing of that as mine was worn.

For the bushings I carefull pressed out the bushings from the 2 housings and used the 2 best bushings of the 4 use them.

Like the newer Mercedes diesels with aluminum cylinder heads they crack and a certain amount of cracking is considered normal.

I have only driven one VW Rabbit Diesel and it was gutless as far as acceleration and freeway speeds.

The VW Rabbit Diesls are were made in Barzil and parts come from there.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I drove an 85 Jetta for two years.

Slow.
Shaky.
Odd parts needed machine shop...
Weird belt arrangement.
Weak powertrain.
Very cheap feeling car. Tin can design.


However...
Fantastic fuel economy.
Easy push starting.
COLD AC.


I traded mine to a member on here, he went through it, drove it, broke it, fixed it etc...

I wouldn't want it in salt country...

I can sell you my 300D euro 4 speed for winter driving... it's already got plenty of rust...

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

The vw mk1 manual shifter linkage is hilarious, but cheap to fix.


speaking of cheap,
Parts for VW/Volkswagen/Audi Cars: 1979-1984Jetta
mixed reviews, but hey it's better than NLA

__________________
1985 300TD 1981 Scirocco 1.6D conv 1986 Golf 1.6D 2003 Golf TDI

Well said everyone. I second all of this.

I owned an 82 Rabbit and then it self destructed (my fault) and I replaced it with a 240D. So I basically did what you did in reverse. I was pleasantly surprised by MB, you will be sorely disappointed with VW.

The Rabbit just falls apart. It was designed by the accounting department. The parts inside just disintegrated. Door linkages, locks, dash switches, dash circuit boards(act like fuses and pop under normal loads), seat foam, headliner, trunk lock etc. etc. just failed. The foam in the seats turned to dust. The seat covers turned to dust. AC belt could never be tensioned properly because of a cheap mount. Ahh yes and the shift linkage bushings disintegrated but the 240D’s did as well.

One day my electrical heating system for WVO locked on and set the car on fire while parked. I torched my own car. My wife was thrilled. I bought a 240d a month later and it was the best car and decision I’d made in a long time. I would have never toyed with diesel without the Rabbit. I bought it for only $100 on Craigslist. So I’m thankful for the Bunny.

But seriously, you’re going the wrong way. Don’t do it. You see a lot of those cars on the road? Nope.

Edit - I didn’t mention Rabbit reliability. The drivetrain was good. Engine, trans (manual), starting, and brakes were robust. The car never left me stranded till my WVO system torched it.

__________________
79 300TD “Old Smokey” AKA “The Mistake” (SOLD)
82 240D stick shift 335k miles (SOLD)
82 300SD 300k miles
85 300D Turbodiesel 170k miles

If it were me, I’d look for a less than pristine Mercedes 240d or 300d. Use it as the winter beater and when it rusts out you’ll have a lot of spare parts for the 240. I don’t know what it’s like where you are, but here in Virginia they do come up every few weeks for a decent price.

__________________
'83 300D turbo diesel (334k daily commuter)
SOLD '80 240D 4 speed manual, #2 piston pitted from crushing a 10mm nut. Running it 'till it burns through.
'78 F-150 300cid 4spd od (with my great unkle's original sales receipt)
SOLD '66 Ford P-350 delivery truck (almost driveable)
'49 Dodge B1D (1 ton Pilothouse era truck) not running but all there, candidate for om617 and 4x4 conversion when money permits.