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  #1  
Old 10-27-2018, 03:28 PM
Diesel forever
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!

Hi all,
The Hatch lock on my W123 wagon has always been a little cranky. Anyway, I always managed to get it open with the key, and lock it with the key.

Today something happened when I opened it (with the key). When I went to shut it, the rotating latch wouldn't close on the latch fixed to the floor. I drove home ok with the door "loose". Then at home I fooled around with the key and couldn't get the rotating latch to do anything. Anyway, at some point I shut the door and the rotating latch closed on the latch on the floor and now I can't get the door opened. My door does not have an inside handle.

Any tips on how to (1) get the door open again, and (2) how to repair the problem?

The service manual is next to useless in this case, gives no idea how the latch and lock mechanisms work, how to troubleshoot, etc.

By the way, rust and corrosion are NOT an issue in my latch mechanism, and I lubricated it generously last time I had issues with it some years ago.

And also, the vacuum lock assembly has not been attached and has not worked since before I acquired the car many years ago.

Thanks a lot.

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Last edited by rstl99; 10-27-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2018, 05:03 PM
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I have not read of anyone with this issue but I looked for threads concerning the lock. Maybe there is some pictures that would help give you some ideas.

From our sponsors blog???
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-W123/82-BODY-Rear_Lock_and_Latch_Replacement/82-BODY-Rear_Lock_and_Latch_Replacement.htm
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Old 10-27-2018, 05:11 PM
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I have not read of anyone with this issue but I looked for threads concerning the lock. Maybe there is some pictures that would help give you some ideas.

From our sponsors blog???
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-W123/82-BODY-Rear_Lock_and_Latch_Replacement/82-BODY-Rear_Lock_and_Latch_Replacement.htm
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  #4  
Old 10-27-2018, 05:21 PM
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Wagon Hatch Lock Cylinder Questions

Do you have the Mercedes Service Manual on CD or the Books or are you using startek?

I am asking because the printed books have more info in them in some of the areas. I have not spent any time looking at startek so I don’t know what is there.
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2018, 07:23 PM
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Try locking and unlocking it from the inside with the door lock type pull up/down rod/button.

Good luck!!!
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2018, 08:39 PM
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I am looking in the Factory Service Manual, the actual book

section 72-256. The title does not match your issue but following it allows you to stick a rod inside of the rotating mechanism.

Title: Removal of a Key stuck in the snap lock on the back Door (T sedan)

Done from inside of the car.
This is at the inside lever on the back door. Remove the little screw that holds the plastic shield that is behind the lever and remove the plastic shield

You are going to be sticking a welding rod through that screw hole. On a welding wire of 2mm in diameter, bend a right angle hook of approximately 3 mm in length.
Slip the welding rod with hook through the screw hole (slip the 3mm bent end and rod through the hole)You are supposed to hook it onto the release lever it is not clear how you are supposed to know you are hooked to the lever but pulling back on the release lever returns the trigger foot to the open position. (Sounds like what ever hooks the back door closed opens up.)
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2018, 01:37 PM
Diesel forever
 
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Thanks folks.

Firstly, there is no longer a "pull up/down rod button" or any kind of handle on the inside of the tailgate. Must have gone the same way as the rear wiper assembly at some point in the car's past.

Secondly, I didn't do the "welding rod through the screw hole" trick because I don't weld and don't have rods.

So: I crawled in the back of the car and with lights, mirrors, screwdrivers, and fingers, I managed to pull or push the right combination of levers to disengage the hasp part below, which allowed raising the door.

So now the door is up and I can more easily (sort of, it's a hellish cramped spot inside the hatch to access the assembly and try to even figure out how it works.

Now that it's out, I flipped with my fingers the lock mode on the hasp, and now for the life of me I can't unlock it. There's probably something amiss with the assembly, and I'm thinking of taking it out of the door (at least the service manual is of SOME help in removing it) and testing it out on a bench.

Anyway, the car will slumber in the garage all winter, but I have a bit more hauling to do with it this Fall, so will try to get the assembly figured out and working again...

If anyone has a photo of an assembly out of the car so I can compare the layout to mine, that would be great. As you probably know, you can only readily see the passenger side of the assembly, so what's going on on the driver side is a bit of mystery.

Cheers.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2018, 01:49 PM
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I believe I have a vacuum release pod for a 123 wagon I used to have if it will make your life easier I could never figure out how to replace it though.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2018, 03:09 PM
Diesel forever
 
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Thanks Dieselbenz1, but I'll be happy to just have a manual-working mechanism working again, if I can tame the little critter.
When I gaze inside, I can see a vacuum arrangement of some sort, that seems disconnected from the mechanism, so looks like someone gave up on it in the past, best to let sleepy dogs lie...

So my plan is to remove the assembly from the door and check out its operation on a bench, which would probably make a lot more sense than trying to figure out what linkage does what inside the door. A shame that MB didn't deem it necessary to better document this contraption in the service manual. The manual limits itself to showing how to remove it from the vehicle, and how to put (a replacement one?) back in.

Onward ho.
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:18 AM
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Hello. Consider that you may have unhooked a rod when you were reaching in there the first time. Unfortunately, you will likely need to pull that carpeted piece off there to get the rod back on. There is a small plastic bushing that the rod slides into, which in turn also attaches to the receiving part? Sorry, but I don’t know what to call any of the parts.

I have experienced similar problems with my latch mechanism. I’m also using my hatch in manual mode. I lock it by opening the hatch and pushing the lock plunger down and I unlock it with the key, from the outside.
My vacuum locks and fuel tank lid still locks from the drivers door lock tumbler mechanism.

In the past, I have removed the original assembly and replaced it with a good used one. It is not much fun at all. Even with this used one that I installed, it still gives me problems from time to time.
So far, about all I know is that (A) IF I have a problem after inserting the key, I need to crawl in the back and pull that clasp back, fixed. ( not certain, but I guess this is what you did?) OR (B) If the lock doesn’t turn... I need to pop that shaft back on. The last time the shaft came out, I had a good look at that little plastic bushing and remembered that It didn’t look to be in the best shape. ( my old latch didn’t have that bushing anymore)

I wonder if we can even get that part?
And what is it called?

The only way to reach that rod I suspect, is through holes in the sheet metal of the hatch from the drivers side of the mechanism after the carpet panel is removed. Use something to lightly reach in and check when you have access and a good view of that side. Don’t pull any rods off! Just check to see if there are rods flopping around loose in there.

I think that you also access the vacuum pod for the lock mechanism on that same side. If the vacuum pod is not working, you may want to connect thee two hoses off of the failed pod to avoid having a vacuum leak.

Who knows??? Maybe your vacuum pod just has the rod popped off of that section of the mechanism as well? You might fix two things at once when you can see what’s going on in there.

The vacuum pod is easy to change. The latch mechanism is a pain. I have just left my carpeted panel off the hatch to make it easier to just reach in and fix it when it gives me trouble.

One day I’ll get it working but considering some of those small bushings, I don’t want to mess with it and risk breaking something that is hard or impossible to get.
I would think that rather than sell me parts of the latch.... Mercedes will want to sell me a brand new latch for more money than the car is worth. It is most likely a unique latch for the wagon. I’ve never checked but, I’m betting on it to be really expensive OR not actually available anymore? A part like that would never be made by the aftermarket either.

That small plastic bushing inside the mechanism might be a good 3D printer part candidate if they are not available? It is why I replaced my latch in the first place... because of a little wee piece of plastic. There was nothing wrong with the rest of the latch assembly.... just a .02 cent bit of plastic. I suppose if you can figure out a way to Macguyver that rod in place with some wire, or some other way then great.

Mine has been working fine right up until it got cold up here.
Good luck.
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  #11  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstl99 View Post
Thanks folks.

Firstly, there is no longer a "pull up/down rod button" or any kind of handle on the inside of the tailgate. Must have gone the same way as the rear wiper assembly at some point in the car's past.

Secondly, I didn't do the "welding rod through the screw hole" trick because I don't weld and don't have rods.

So: I crawled in the back of the car and with lights, mirrors, screwdrivers, and fingers, I managed to pull or push the right combination of levers to disengage the hasp part below, which allowed raising the door.

So now the door is up and I can more easily (sort of, it's a hellish cramped spot inside the hatch to access the assembly and try to even figure out how it works.

Now that it's out, I flipped with my fingers the lock mode on the hasp, and now for the life of me I can't unlock it. There's probably something amiss with the assembly, and I'm thinking of taking it out of the door (at least the service manual is of SOME help in removing it) and testing it out on a bench.

Anyway, the car will slumber in the garage all winter, but I have a bit more hauling to do with it this Fall, so will try to get the assembly figured out and working again...

If anyone has a photo of an assembly out of the car so I can compare the layout to mine, that would be great. As you probably know, you can only readily see the passenger side of the assembly, so what's going on on the driver side is a bit of mystery.

Cheers.

Thats is about what I did when it stuck. I pulled the carpeted panel off, sprayed a lot of PB blaster in there and managed to get my hands in there and move the right combo of things. After I got it open I could sort of see that a loose electrical connector had been mashed up jammed in the mechanism. I managed to get some of it out and the tailgate opens and closes now.
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  #12  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:56 AM
Diesel forever
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Thanks Do de Do for the long post, which I read with interest.

Yeah, not much fun to jiggle with the mechanism through the sheet metal (few bloody knuckles!).

When I got it going yesterday, I made the mistake of snapping the bottom clasp closed, and now cannot for the life of me get it opened.

This photo shows the part I mean.
Attached Thumbnails
W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0076.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 10-29-2018, 11:04 AM
Diesel forever
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Photos speak more than words.
Here are photos I took of the passenger and driver sides of the mechanism.

Some photos have an electrical connection attached to the passenger side (not sure what that does?!?) and some have it removed for easier finger access to linkages.

On the driver side I can see the plastic grommet where I presume the vacuum actuator would snap in (from the top?). It was disconnected on my car. I took a photo of the actuator itself.

Anyway, I liberally sprayed in there with PB blaster, and the key seems to move linkages as it should (?), but the locked clasp at the bottom will not budged from its snapped shut position.

I took the bolts off that secure the mechanism to the sheet metal, but it doesn't look like an easy removal (tight space in there) so I bolted it back in until I could figure if I should remove it and properly inspect and reverse-engineer on my bench.

Any words of advice would be welcome of course, in how to unlock that bottom piece (clasp). Thanks

If not obvious: photo 1 from driver side, the rest are passenger side
Attached Thumbnails
W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0071.jpg   W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0072.jpg   W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0073.jpg   W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0077.jpg   W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0078.jpg  

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  #14  
Old 10-29-2018, 11:06 AM
Diesel forever
 
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A few more photos to continue the slide show...

If not obvious: photos 1, 2 from driver side; photo 3 vacuum actuator
Attached Thumbnails
W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0079.jpg   W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0080.jpg   W123 Wagon Hatch stuck closed - help!-img_0082.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 10-29-2018, 12:15 PM
Diesel forever
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Ok it seems to work well again (actually, better than I ever recall it working since I've owned it). Liberal and repeated application of PB Blaster seems to have freed up whatever was sticking.

The hefty spring at the right of first photo of #14 is what brings the latch back to the open position, when pressing the key button.

I tried it several times and it now works reliably.

Turning the key to the right locks the mechanism so pressing the button doesn't release. Turning the key to the left releases the mechanism so pressing the button releases the latch.

I didn't bother trying to connect up the vacuum to the linkage on the mechanism (too fiddly in there with the tight clearance, and it looked like an exercice in frustration). Quite content to use the key, now that it seems to work as it should and consistently.

Time to put everything back together. Took the advantage of access to spray some anti-rust oil into the bottom edges at the bottom of the inside of the door. Had already drilled some 1/8" holes a few places at the bottom, to allow any water that gets in there to drain out rather than pool and cause rust. My rear hatch is not in great condition (some dents, missing wiper assembly), but it's reasonably solid (as is the rest of the car, which hasn't seen many winters here in the N-E, so is a survivor) and I want to keep it that way.

Thanks for the help and encouragement, and I'm very glad I didn't have to take the sucker out of the door.

Hope this thread and photos will help others with similar issues in the future.

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Last edited by rstl99; 10-29-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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