OM642 DEF heater - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TimFreeh · #31 09-05-2019, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I read over the documents about the AdBlue system on the W166 and it looks like the syringe is just a provided tool to empty out the AdBlue tank prior to service work. I found nothing about needing to prime the pump.

That was going to be my guess as well, except yours isn't a guess since you've got the service documents! Haven't ever done that job but it seems like you could just hot-wire the pump and dump the fluid into spare ad-blue container.

psaboic · #32 09-05-2019, 09:47 AM

Good to know the pump does not need to be primed as per the service documents! pawoSD, I really appreciate the tip and information. I see you are from Michigan, I was born and raised in Ypsilanti, so from one Michigander to another.....thank you! Kinda weird though, the syringe looks like it only holds about 5-6 ounces. Depending on how much fluid is in the tank, it could take awhile to empty it, unless the syringe is for getting out any residual small amounts. Once the damn DEF heater actually arrives, I will be putting the beast back together.

barry12345 · #33 09-05-2019, 10:15 AM

I just purchased a Volkswagon buy back Passat with ad blue. Warranty on any emission impacting item is 10 years after the original new delivery date. In this case until June 2022 or 193,000 kilometers.

The used car dealer is bringing in a fair amount of them. Actually being a 2012 it is considered an older car now. Really nice car on the original tires according to their date codes. With lots of wear still available.

It was built wherever in America Audis are. As far as I could tell at least everything but one daytime driving bulb still works. They change it this Saturday. I had it for two days before purchase to examine. It seems remarkably fast in comparison to other Volkswagons we have owned with the same displacement engines. We still have another old one.

This car is eons apart in comparison to the 2006 Jetta. Really though there Is a suprising amount of electronics and electrical functions. I am in the process of attempting to find out if the transmission oil was changed.

Leave it to Volkswagon to have a privacy law on if it was done or not. Recommendation is every 40K miles. I asked Myself would I have had it done if I knew it was going back to volkswagon? Highly unlikely then again I do not want to do it if it was just done. anyways it to me seems like a poor mans Mercedes in many ways including high dealer service costs. I an change the transmission fluid for about a hundred dollars or so myself. About 250 and higher at dealers. There is no dipstick nor top fill. You bascally darin and inject 5 liters of fluid. Run the car until the transmission hits 35c degrees and stop the overflow by inserting the plug. Transmission filter is a cartridge type on top of the transmission. That tiptronic transmission is a Borg Warner design. Known to be problematic until about 2011. I can only hope for the best. What is od is it was designed and engineered for durability. No torque converter and the gears look like a standard six speed transmission inside. It has two wet running clutches. In 2015 they changed this to running them dry apparently. That indicates to me they were probably still having some issues with them.

I would not feel comforatable buying that car new with Volkswagons corporate attitude. In what very limited records we could locate. A dealer fixed an issue for 72.00. No description of the issue but I suspect changed a light bulb. So far thanks to the ex Volkswagon service manager. He located who the selling dealer was new. I only can hope they will tell me if they changed the transmission oil. Their ex service manager only mentioned maybe if they do a little not under volkswagon privacy policy. He said that dealership is a little more laid back than many.

I thought I missed the diesel V6 loaded Audi SUV. As it also sold fast it too was a really nice example. I though at the prices a pair of vehicles from that batch was not a bad ideal. I stopped feeling bad about missing it when the service manager told me . They have a real bad very expensive electrical issue potential you do not want. Where the Passat you got has proven not that bad and the items that are most prone to cause issues now if any are under warranty.

Also the common problems if they arise on your car occur usually before the first 10K. Again as I keep hearing around.He said do not go to the recommended 10K engine oil changes. Change it at about 6K. I forgot to ask him when to change out the high pressure feed pump for the common rail. As a preventative. If it fails the repair can be about three quarters of what I paid for the car.

Plus he stated burn high test diesel oil. It also gives a little better fuel millage as well as keeping the engine internals a little cleaner. Shell is the best source.

On fuel milage tests by me it was above 50 miles per gallon highway on the imperial gallon. Exactly how much more I am not positive yet. It wll not be much. Again he claimed the conversion creates about a one mile per gallon loss on average on this model. If it lost any power with the conversion. I doubt it. It is that fast. Still logically with the exhaust almost in constant reburn now there should have been some.

The emission change on the add blue model is only a program change on the computer. To leave the pollution functions active I suspect. It is just a car but far too complex for it too see really old age. Newer may even be worse. I have to assume it was reasonably expensive new. If the high pressure fuel pump or the automatic fails. This car may be a walk away at what I paid for it. Or depending on what I can source at the time doing it myself. We will just have to see. Since I got it for about half of what the Volkwagon dealers are attempting to get it at least sits well on the remaining depreciation curve. My best guess is it is fundementally in many ways a rebadged audi. It has every option other than a back up camera and navigation. It kind of feels like a BMW when driving it. I did not tell the wife she was stuck with a diesel until after she drove it. Personally I think you cannot tell the difference with this car.

I just feel better with her out on the highways all the time driving this. There is nothing wrong with the Toyota she is driving. But they do not have the comfort, handling and crash resistance this car has. For those like myself that know little about the add blue cars. Other than the systems tend to be expensive to repair. The fluid capacity is calculated to last the length of the recommended oil changes. It seems to me that the warning about low capacity of fluid starts 1000 miles before depletion. Deplete it and the engine will not start again from what I can tell from the owners manual. There is really little cheap in cost anymore but to fill the add blue is somewhat cheap in todays world.

From a technical detail fuel pressure from the 40,000 pound common rail pump must decline or bleed off a little sitting. A good older Volkswagon diesel fires on the first compression stroke this time of year. This had a slight but noticeable delay. So I tried starting two other examples and they were the same. Usually the would start for quite some years when gas cars would struggle.at low temperatures. To me the engine running noise was pathetic though. Until they warmed up. There was no provision for a block heater either. All these came equipped with one now again. The original safety inspection sticker was on the windshield. Extrapolating from it this car sat for at least a year or more. I may ask for the buy back date from the selling dealer if he is co operative. They modified the newest ones first of course because they got more of a return out of them I suspect. The 2011s should be showing up soon I expect. The 2010s will be dirt cheap up here if you can get a good one. Nine came from volkswagon Canada in a batch to a private used car dealer. What is going on in America may be differant. Here a hand picked 2010 might go for say three thousand dollars. The older the harder to find a lower millage one though. Even with the problem volkswagon had. The local used car place seems to have no issue moving them really fast.

He is nowhere near what Volkswagon dealers had been asking for them. The 2013 or 2014 jetta with a six speed manual . I did not really check out. If it was what it seemed 5K American Would have taken it. Of course it sold the next day. They only have a higher milage Passat and a Suv left yesterday from the batch that arrived last Wednesday. Both had around 100k miles and did not appear to have been well taken care of. Where ours as well as a couple of others looked almost brand new. Volkswagon also replaced the batteries from them sitting on the cars I noticed. Leave it to them to put in gas car size batteries in diesels. From what I hear repairs to the volkswagon add blue rear tank system are about 700.00 American at dealers.

psaboic · #34 09-07-2019, 10:42 AM

Still waiting for the new DEF heater unit to arrive.....must have been sent on the proverbial slow boat from China.........

psaboic · #35 09-08-2019, 07:39 PM

Ok the new DEF pump and heater are in, car runs fine, no check engine light after about a 100 mile round trip, so I'm thinking it is going to be ok.

Not a hard job by any means.

Only tricky parts are disconnecting the pump outlet tube to drop the tank, and remembering where all the connectors go and how they are routed (pictures help a lot). The only pain in the ass is having to remove the right rear wheel and inner fender liner to gain access to it all.

Big tip, use a floor jack to lower the DEF tank if you believe it is more than 25% full. Ours was almost full to the top (figures). Also, draining and emptying the tank before re-installing makes life much easier. BTW, in case anyone wants to know, I drained roughly 7 gallons of DEF from the nearly full tank, so that should give you an idea on tank capacity.

If you have all the parts readily at hand, and are fairly handy with tools, it is a 3 hour job max, start to finish, including clean up. DO NOT pay the damn dealer ridiculous amounts of coin to do a job you can easily do yourself

barry12345 · #36 09-08-2019, 07:54 PM

When these diesel cars and SUVs are gone. It probably is the end of the diesel era. Except for trucks, tractors and excavation equipment.

It is too bad the way it is ending. Power and cold starting had become far less of an issue.

Another oddity is it appears only one brand was seriously persecuted for cheating. When it was pretty obvious other brands where as well.

Then again Volkwagon intentionally lied by claiming they were producing a clean burning diesel when in reality the emissions of a harmful component where 40 times over the regulation limit. There is a possibility the outright lying led to the serious persecution.

psaboic · #37 09-08-2019, 08:07 PM

FYI

pawoSD · #38 09-08-2019, 08:49 PM

Good to hear the repair went smoothly!

I suspect diesels may make another comeback if we encounter real high oil prices before electrification is the mainstream option. The stuff VW did is shady, but with the way emissions regulations are set up in the USA, unsurprising. When a diesel smart car getting 80mpg "pollutes more" than a H2 hummer per the EPA's guidelines, really makes you wonder....

psaboic · #39 09-08-2019, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

When a diesel smart car getting 80mpg "pollutes more" than a H2 hummer per the EPA's guidelines, really makes you wonder....

Uhhhh, YEAH!!

97 SL320 · #40 09-09-2019, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

When a diesel smart car getting 80mpg "pollutes more" than a H2 hummer per the EPA's guidelines, really makes you wonder....

I suspect that is rated using " Ton per mile " as in a vehicle can move X amount of cargo over a mile and give off Y amount of emissions for that ton. ( Economy of scale )

barry12345 · #41 09-09-2019, 10:50 AM

Unlike burning gas there is extra oxygen available the diesel fuel does not require. Volkswagon cooled the exhaust and used a portion of it to reburn it.. A decent ideal but the accumulation of by products from it created a mess. In the recycling system. If they can get around that the diesel car might come back.

Setting the system up to be easily cleaned out periodically. Or even self cleaning. Currently it is about a six hour job. The high test diesel has a cleaning additive package and is only about ten cents a gallon more. So in my opinion it is possible for the diesel car engine to resurface again. I am pretty certain a lot of effort is being taken on truck engines in this area. So research has not stopped.

The add blue cars logically do not have to recycle as much exhaust as the non add blue cars. On cars like our older 2006 Jetta some effort has been done to chemically keep the exhaust recycling system cleaner. By some people. Or at least reduce the time frame of the build up.

Over time many really competent repair facilities have emerged that are not affiliated with Volkswagon. The good ones seem to thrive.

Things have also changed in that some used car dealers are more ethical than new car dealers. I can see this as they have to be car oriented to know what to buy and what condition it is really in. The local guy in my area for example wants you back again for the next car.

His system seems to be working for him. He has been at it for twenty five years. I have never heard anything but good about him. He has more people looking over his inventory all the time than all the other car dealers combined in the local area. His inventory turnover is so rapid. If you see something you might like. You act then.

We have become aquaintences. I asked him how he responds to those that have purchased a used car and have some reasonable complaint. He said in most cases he has it repaired even after a year. They tell their friends and relatives.

When you buy a new car from a new car dealership. In most cases the people selling know nothing in comparison. The best way to describe the relationship with his outfit. The cars he gets sell themselves because the price and quality are good. The 2006 Jetta was my first experience with him.

He told me the older car had been well maintained by an older owner that died. He also stated he usually does not buy cars this old. He said it still looks like new and runs as new as well overall. I asked him if I could take it for two days with a dealer plate to evaluate it. He although we had never met said sure. Part of the reason I wanted to do this as his price seemed a lot lower than similar cars advertised elsewhere. Plus was in much better shape.

On this current one when I went to pay for it he said I will take your personal check. I seldom write checks anymore so just went to the bank and got a draft. What checks are written and they are few the wife does now.

No buyers remorse on these deals with him either. When we used to buy new cars the new aspect was gone very fast. Plus I realised the initial depreciation was massive. Where I can resell any car I buy from him and get what I paid for it back if I wanted to. Within a reasonable time frame.

Word around my area is that I am a value buyer. I see the race to accumulate more and more. I never had the massive means so I quickly figured it is not how much money you make. It is how you dispose of it. It is a constant in our life now. Plus for more than fifty years.

For example we picked up a patio set used but in really good condition as well a week or so ago. It was a highline set. A table with two umbrellas plus six chairs. The old umbrella still in good condition and a new spare. Six more chairs that had an adjustable back. Two lounges and two footrests for the adjustable chairs.

The lady said 75.00 and it was gone. You win and you lose some of course. The deck extension to take all this the wife wants. Is about three thousand in materials.

I had a problem in that one son in law got the worse value out of his money and remains the same. Rather than have the wife financially assist the daughter quietly. I thought getting him into refrigeration might increase his income enough in todays world to meet their perceived needs for the fashion he wants to exist in.

We also got them out of bankrupcy as it would stain the family name. I did make it perfectly clear that this was a one shot deal. Plus it may be reflected in whatever inheritance is left when the wife and myself are gone. Typically he dropped by yesterday as I was repairing the generator.

He said you need a new carb. I just mentioned that with the storm every place is closed. Plus it is far too early to say a new one is needed. We had it repaired in about an hour. Two additional to what I had found originally When he had originally dropped it by.

When he gave it to me as it would not run some time back. I cleaned out the shut off valve and the bottom metering device in the carb. Figured it was good to go so did not really test it.

In yesterdays episode it turned out I had missed the screen in the base of the cheap die cast shut off valve. I lightly blew through it after the cleaning originally and figured it was good to go.

It would not pass gas. Plus the needle valve was seized shut. The pin that holds the float is not removable. I was able to grasp the wire from the needle valve and free it. The carb did not overflow so the rubber tip was intact. I also suggested several ways to store his large generator to him between uses. Or will he be giving it to me at some point?

This son in law has a good heart but the way his family always functioned just was all too typical of today. As the daughter stated he told her. He never knew anyone like her dad. I told her our families ways are not the only way. I even suspect some current ways keep what is the current economy functioning. This easy endless credit. Where your father is old school. If something breaks I usually repair it. Where the majority today replace it without a moments thought.

Where I thought a more reasonable objective was to get away from debt as early as possible in life. It looked like gerbils running on an endless wheel to me otherwise. Freedom is also having a fair degree of liquidity. You are not really rich because the liquidity that enables the freedom must be maintained.

We never had an issue living well within our means. It is a form of self insurance against many things. I guess it is just a choice in life. Everyone gets through life one way or another. Although since I like people. I wonder about their choices sometimes.

When they reduce themselves to almost indentured slaves to the system. Money issues. Specifically the shortfalls. Unfortunately are the number one discord factor in relationships as well as huge stress producers. There are used cars out there today that are only a fraction of their original cost and still much as new. Yes you have to source them and it takes a little effort. So does it really make any sense to buy brand new today? I am finding more and more people with a decent income streams buying from all kinds of sources other than typical retail. Plus the average cost in Toronto for a small one bedroom apartment is now 2,300 a month and rising. Your first 575.00 a week from your income stream is history. You are not buying anything than ever increasing shelter costs. The economy is doing good but has really burnt the lowest third of the Canadian population in the process it seems. Food costs have gone really high for them as well.

henryory88 · #42 09-20-2019, 06:29 AM

I even don't have a better knowledge of using that kind of heater you are talking about. But recently I buy this one "Hatco C-45 Booster Heater, Electric" from online https://www.kitchenrestock.com. I noticed that it saved me some money when I compared the price with other websites. Are you looking for something like that?

Graham · #43 09-20-2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryory88

I even don't have a better knowledge of using that kind of heater you are talking about. But recently I buy this one "Hatco C-45 Booster Heater, Electric" from online https://www.kitchenrestock.com. I noticed that it saved me some money when I compared the price with other websites. Are you looking for something like that?

That's got to be one of the funniest post on this subject

jay_bob · #44 09-20-2019, 05:34 PM

That heater is an instantaneous hot water booster heater for commercial kitchen dishwashers. It takes the domestic hot water (usually 120-160 degrees) and boosts it to 180 degrees for the final rinse and sanitize cycle. This is for the big dishwashers where you raise the hood and slide a whole basket of plates/silverware/cups/etc, and the cycle takes about 3 or so minutes total, and the dishes come out steaming hot.

These run on 3 phase 208 or 480 V ac!