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  #16  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:23 PM
JB3 JB3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sev View Post
I would like to buy a 240d that's local to me. I know the seller personally, and they took good care of the car. But I drove it, and compared to my 300d turbo, it's a dog Is it possible to add a turbo from a 300d onto the 240d? What modifications would be required to make?
As already pointed out, this is a hotbutton issue which will bring out numerous posts from people who A. Have never contemplated the idea, B. Have never driven such a modified vehicle, and C. Have usually never seen one.

However, they are experts and will tell you it cant be done including comments on performance and longevity based on zero data. Go figure.

The hardest mods will be to your manifolds. There are a couple ways to rig this, i chose the lopping off of the 5cyl manifold which can get a little complicated with the cast iron and one bolt hole.

Then you will need a turbo drain line provision, accomplished by pulling lower oil pan and carefully drilling a hole through the upper pan aluminum. I chose a bulkhead fitting, others have tapped the casting and threaded in a hose nipple. Oiling parts for the turbo from the 617 oil filter housing, and a few other mods.

Theres a good thread with (still active) pictures over on superturbodiesel, called "purple 240 turbo"

Good read on exactly how he did it. This forum is not receptive to many mods

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  #17  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:24 AM
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Have to agree with the more "liberal" posters here
People have put turbos on NA engines since turbos were invented, don't let anyone tell you you it can't be done. Just don't expect them to last like the proper designed engines do. I went and stuck a bigger turbo and souped up injection pump on my NA 617 but yet to get it road legal...
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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2020, 04:36 AM
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Turbo charged a 85 240d. Worked great,out performed any stock 300sd between
15-85mph. although the head was ported,larger exhaust valve installed,fuel increased.
Suggestions:use a turbo from a 1.8 L engine,early toyota,300sd turbo to large.
Wasted gate control (spring).
Best intake 84-85 egr kind,of course with mods. No kidding. Had tried
the 5 cyl manifold before.
If done correct you will really enjoy.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2020, 08:46 AM
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Easier and cheaper to buy a 300D turbo. Why on earth would you spend your free time hacking up a perfectly good 240, pay the same or more, to end up with something inferior?
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2020, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
Then why were you initially listing it as a difficult additional mod? In addition to a radiator (unnecessary), even that is plug and play. Honestly you can choose the diff for your application, but the stock 240 diff works just fine with a turbo.

A turbo makes all the difference in the usability of a 240. The engine is overbuilt and can easily handle it.
Changing the diff is not difficult but it does cost money. If you want to put on a turbo and change nothing else go for it.

Have you actually done an installation of a turbo on a 240?

What did it cost you in the end and how many miles have you put on it?
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #21  
Old 03-31-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Changing the diff is not difficult but it does cost money. If you want to put on a turbo and change nothing else go for it.

Have you actually done an installation of a turbo on a 240?

What did it cost you in the end and how many miles have you put on it?
Ive paid as much as 200 for a diff and as little as 35 dollars. Price is less of an issue than availability frankly. These cars are old, available parts are vanishing.

I have converted one and bought a converted one. On both, the turbo was sourced from a 300D. Reading above a smaller turbo might be a fun. The oomph a turbo gives you is great around town on a 240, especially with a stock differential. My point is you are listing things that are not really a requirement for a conversion, and presenting them as necessary, to make the point its not worth it.

Cost was pretty low, you are using mostly bits sourced from a 300D. Most of your time, money, and effort is in labor or paying welding labor.

I had about 5k on mine before i dismantled it for rot reasons (still have the engine) and the one i bought had quite a bit more 20 to 30k.

What i have no experinece with is TRUE longevity, not just rumors of unknown death and destruction. However having said that there are quite a few member who certainly do. Before i started my conversion i made a point of contacting people i could find who had done it and asking them. You know what? I couldnt find a direct account of destruction anywhere.

Here is what i think based on that, its likely true that turbo charging the 616 reduces engine life, but its likely negligible. If a motor is capable of lasting 4 to 500k without major overhaul, thats decades of driving for most people. If you knock off say 50k with your turbo charger at the end of an engines life, its not going to be noticed when most of these cars actually driven will rot away decades prior.

With that in mind go nuts. The rest of the car is likely to fall apart well before you notice adverse effects from turbo charging the engine. Then again, you may not have adverse effects at all depending how you drive it. It the meantime the modification gives a dangerously slow and heavy blob of steel, a hell of an injection of fun and usability.
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2020, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by R.Diesel View Post
Easier and cheaper to buy a 300D turbo. Why on earth would you spend your free time hacking up a perfectly good 240, pay the same or more, to end up with something inferior?
Because its not inferior, and its a fun project.
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  #23  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by R.Diesel View Post
Easier and cheaper to buy a 300D turbo. Why on earth would you spend your free time hacking up a perfectly good 240, pay the same or more, to end up with something inferior?
Free time...?
Some people here work on these cars for fun.
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  #24  
Old 03-31-2020, 12:54 PM
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I'm waiting for anyone who still drives one to chime in .

Yes, the handling is markedly better .

Yes, there were loads of them around ten years ago, not so much now ~ not one has chimed in to say "I did this and am still loving it" .

Hot Rods of any stripe are fun until they aren't then no one wants to remember the anguish caused .

Agreed it'll make the car more fun to drive but, the end of life comes up much faster than anyone wants to admit and the entire times it's spewing oil out of every joint ~ another little detail they choose to ignore or forget .
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:18 PM
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I guess the question finally is "does it make economic sense?" I suspect that the answer will always be no. JB3 you never answered about the cost. It sounds like you did a lot of the custom work yourself....most folks really cannot.

If you are doing it because you enjoy the challenge and get satisfaction from it, no problem.

When MB built turbo models they had to design them to run years on end and at sustained speeds on our interstate or on the Autobahn.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post
I'm waiting for anyone who still drives one to chime in .

Yes, the handling is markedly better .

Yes, there were loads of them around ten years ago, not so much now ~ not one has chimed in to say "I did this and am still loving it" .

Hot Rods of any stripe are fun until they aren't then no one wants to remember the anguish caused .

Agreed it'll make the car more fun to drive but, the end of life comes up much faster than anyone wants to admit and the entire times it's spewing oil out of every joint ~ another little detail they choose to ignore or forget .
Those people are usually not on this forum. Frankly people here are capable of debating a miniscule change in tire size as a bad thing.

I challenge you to substantiate a single one of your claims. I couldnt when i was looking into this.
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I guess the question finally is "does it make economic sense?" I suspect that the answer will always be no. JB3 you never answered about the cost. It sounds like you did a lot of the custom work yourself....most folks really cannot.

If you are doing it because you enjoy the challenge and get satisfaction from it, no problem.

When MB built turbo models they had to design them to run years on end and at sustained speeds on our interstate or on the Autobahn.
Expense is low enough i dont even remember. Turbo, manifolds, back of a turbo oil filter, alda, all off a parts engine in a yard. Not expensive. Modification of intake, easy. Cut and weld plate. Modification of exhaust, hardest part. (This is assuming you use the 617 stuff which may be harder than adapting to 240 manifolds.). Playing with the pump, installation, oil line, all labor or cheap.

I paid a forum member to braze my exhaust manifold, think 100 bucks. Aluminum welding cost me less than 100.

That plus parts id be surprised if i was into it for more than 500 bucks.

You may be overthinking the true complexity and cost of how much work this is. Its a fun project
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  #28  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
its likely negligible. If a motor is capable of lasting 4 to 500k without major overhaul, thats decades of driving for most people. If you knock off say 50k with your turbo charger at the end of an engines life

That's not how it works.

There's a reason why the turbo engines have piston cooling jets and other changes (prechamber etc)

I bet if you really got on it with good boost you would melt a piston or destroy a prechamber in it in less that 10 miles.
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  #29  
Old 03-31-2020, 04:16 PM
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Some one did put on a Turbo on a 240D about 5-7 years back in the Performance section. Used an intercooler. Also, as I remember he was getting 36-38 mpg in VT with a 4 spd.
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  #30  
Old 03-31-2020, 06:08 PM
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This forum is not the best one for this topic. That being said...

I have a turbo 616, GT2052V, ATW intercooler, maxed out IP, Modified Prechamners, 10* (at the crank) advanced cam timing, 315 injector nozzles, and start of injection timing is a 29* BTDC and regularly 20/25lbs of boost.

I am currently playing with a 616 block to make piston squirters so I can put 617a pistons in it so it will handle a 10mm pump.

The reality is this.. It is not the addition of a turbo that makes more power. Simply adding a turbo to a 616 will at best, clean up any smoke that there may have been before the turbo, but only when in boost.

The increase in power comes from increasing fuel, and that is where the turbo comes in, as in order to burn more fuel, the engine needs more air. Sounds easy, but adjusting the IP output and Ideally fueling curve is something that many people have gotten themselves in trouble trying to do.

A tuned turbo 240D will make a stock 300D (turbo) look slow up until about 60mph, at that point it is running out of gear. lol

So, at the end of the day, unless you are capable of tuning governor to increase the fueling, don't bother adding a turbo.

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