Hello everyone. To start I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to. Is timing the injection pump so critical that a slightly out of time pump will prevent starting/idling?

If you have the time please read the following.

My 1982 300D turbo diesel starting making a bad rattling noise a few months ago. I found that it was coming from the vacuum pump area, and when pulling the pump discovered that all the bearings were gone from the roller and it and the cam plate on the front of the timing device were destroyed. I started sourcing all the parts I needed. I planned to do the timing chain and all the guides. I also decided to replace the radiator, oil cooler lines, and trans cooler lines as they were all showing wetness to varying degrees.

In working through this project I came to find that the timing chain only showed 2 to 3 degrees of stretch with the markings on the cam and cam tower lined up. I decided to not change the chain, but did all the chain guides as I was that far in to the project. I can always roll in the new chain I ordered when it becomes time.

After getting everything back together, I found that I couldn't start the engine. Before this tear down I never had any issues with starting, and typically it would start nearly instantly when hitting the key. At this point I starting thinking that something with the injection pump timing must have changed, as I had the timing device off to change the bushing behind it and the cam plate on its face.

I tried rotating the engine over little by little and checking my drip tube on the first injection pump port. I discovered that I was starting to get fuel about 10 degrees AFTER TDC. I removed the pump (and oil filter housing) in this position when it was showing some drops of fuel without moving the crank rotation. With the pump off, I brought the engine around to 24 BTDC with cylinder 1 on the compression stroke. The two front cam lobes look like they're at 11 and 2 when in this position.

At this point I put the pump back on and timed it by the drip method to the best of my ability. In this position, through the injection pump's rotation I can move it from getting full flow to nothing at all. From what I understand, I should be able to time the pump as it is with its adjustment. The most I have been able to get from the engine is rough firing, one rush of the engine reving with a lot of smoke. The engine dies and will not idle. I do not know what to look at next.

I checked the glow plugs and they seem to ohm out fine. I have been making sure that I bleed the hard lines to the injectors as well, and I am getting fuel to each injector. The other side of this is compression, but I don't see how I could have an issue with it as the engine ran fine before this. Before I put the valve cover back on, I rolled the engine over a few times and the timing marks on the crank and cam tower always came back around. To repeat my question, will an injection pump even just a little off time prevent an OM617 from starting? Is there anything else I should check? Thank you for your time reading this. I appreciate any advice you can give.

Do you have a shop manual from MB? Some of the injection pumps have an irregular offset. There is information on that in the manual. It is an unlikely possibility. I am fairly certain it goes by the numbers on the pump. It sounds like you have the pump installation off by a notch or two. If I find my manual handy I will look it up for you.

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Chris
84 280sl
82 300d euro

Revved up once, sounds like engine ran out of fuel. Try this, pump primer until buzz heard
from relief valve ,pump a few more times, crank engine 15-20 sec. pump primer again
30-40 times, crank again pump again.
If filter was replaced was it filled with fuel?
How is cranking speed?
Old style primers can suck in air, engine seems to start and run fine until system is opened

I have found some PDFs online, but I do not have a physical copy of the shop manual. I am familiar with the irregular pumps, and I believe it started with 82, but that shouldn't be an issue at this point. As I noted in the original post, I can move the injection pump from fully open to fully closed in the position I have it installed right now.

Hercules, the fuel filters were not replaced. I supposed it is possible it is an air lock or fuel starving issue, but I'm not sure. I can try your instructions next time I look at it. I always have fuel to the injectors before I try to actually start it. Cranking speed is fine. The battery is new and I have been keeping it charged.

I was able to get it idling today, but it was very rough and blowing smoke. It seems like going more advanced on the timing is helps, but I don't know how far to go. After 5 or so attempts to get the timing right, I did pull the valve cover to see if the cam and crank marks line up, which they did. So I have confirmed that I didn't mess that up.

I did also have my wife pump the priming pump while I turned the crank to see if I was correct with my pump timing. Each time we did it, we were within a degree or so of where I set the pump. So it is very touchy, but I haven't been that far off. Should I keep advancing the pump timing further and further to see if I can get a decent idle?

Lots of smoking ,pump timing is most likely off.
review; valve removed from #1cyl.on injection pump
vacuum hose pulled from back of injection pump,
throttle to full
timing mark set to 26 degrees (better performance ) BTDC not ATDC
drip one drop every 2 sec. while pumping primer
it ran ok before will run ok again.

Remember pump timing is not set by moving pump to drip but set pump than check timing
by rotating engine until the two sec. drip. Close is not good enough, DEAD ON.

My first gut instinct would be that the system isn’t primed. You say you get a drip using that method, but what about the lines? Did you crack them and let fuel ooze out? If not you might still have air. Residual fuel makes its way to the injector but doesn’t really do much. No flow.

This is the beauty of the 60x pumps, you can see when it’s timed.

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Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (116k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
2008 ML320 CDI (199k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (267k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K), 1985 300D (233K), 1993 300D 2.5T (338k), 1993 300SD (291k)

So today I replaced the fuel filters and hooked the fuel hoses into a separate can to run from. I am getting the same no start issue. The fuel in the spin on filter had a green tint, but I don't know if that's just from age or if something got into the tank.

I'm very certain that this isn't a priming issue. I always crack the lines at the injectors after adjusting the pump to make sure there isn't air in them. And with the new filters and the separate fuel can I think it's safe to say it isn't a fueling issue. I could be wrong.

I'll try another time with the drip method but I'm not optimistic. I don't know what else could be the issue aside from timing.

Does anyone know a reliable mechanic in the LA area? It's by no means a show car but I need to get it running.

So in one last try at everything, after setting the timing with the drip method, I rechecked it by slowly coming up to the start of injection. I started at 40 BTDC, and went degree by degree to see where the flow of fluid would start. At 26 BTDC I got nothing, but at 25 BTDC I got a thin stream of fuel. This tells us my timing must be between 25 and 26 degrees.

I still have no luck with it running. As I mentioned in my last post, I removed the old fuel and fuel tank from the equation by trying to run off a small fuel container. I normally use it when running diesel purge through the injection system. I also replaced the in line and spin on fuel filters.

I have some pictures I'll post for an idiot check. There is a picture of the crank indicator, the cam lobes, the stream of fuel, the throttle tied wide open, and the markings on the injection pump and the front of the engine compartment.

My only other thought is could there possibly be an issue with the timing chain between the timing device and the sprocket above it? I know that my crank and cam pulleys are in the right location on the timing chain, but is it possible to get the timing device back in off a tooth in relation to them? I don't really see how it would all go back together if the chain slack was in the wrong place, but I suppose it could be possible.

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Here are the last pictures.

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With all of the trouble it is back to the basics.

You could remove the valve cover and line up the camshaft gear with the timing mark on the first camshaft earing support. Turn the engine clockwise as viewed from the front and line up the marks as close as possible.

See the 2nd picture in post number 16 for the camshaft timing marks.

OM617 Injection Pump Timing Question

When you look down at the crankshaft pointer it should point to 2-3 degrees past OT (OT is top dead center). If it is not there your camshaft timing is off. (The reason for the 2-3 degrees off OT is that a used chain should have some stretch in it. If it is right on OT good deal.)

The next thing is look at the picture if the fuel injection pump. If it has that 17mm head plug in the red circle you can buy a timing locking pin. The pin will lock the fuel injection pump in a timing position sufficient to start the engine.

You need to pull the fuel injection pump out far enough that you can rotate the drive end of the pump with a wrench. To properly install the timing locking pin, you remove that 17mm head plug (oil is going to come out) and replace that with the properly oriented timing locking pin. Next you rotate the fuel injection pump clockwise till it locks in place.

Back to the engine, you rotate the engine clockwise past OT (top dead center) to what is on your emissions tag. On mine that is 15 degrees after top dead center. (Remember you are using a different timing method this time. That is why the timing is done at different degres.)

At that point you are ready to stick the fuel injection pump back in. Center the kidney slots on the fuel injection pump flange over the studs so that there is equal distance to rotate the fuel injection pump either way. And bolt down the fuel injection pump. Remember to hook up the oil supply line.

Remove the timing locking pin and replace the port plug.

Some instructions in the below threads in post 2.

IP install... locking tool weird, teeth are off the mark.

When the fuel injection pump is bolted down, and the timing locking pin removed, and the port plug is replaced the Fuel injection pump is timed to the engine. If the procedure was done correctly.

The rest is the bleeding the air out issue and so on.

Note the timing locking pin was made for when you take the pump out you would install the locking pin before sticking it back into the engine. It helps keep the drive end lined up.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Looks like your where you should be on timing. What next?
If fuel pressure is low can cause hard starting, if air incursion through hand primer pump
can cause hard starting even if engine ran good before opening fuel system.
Glow plug fuse ok? Glow plugs still ok?

When priming pump was the pressure regulator valve heard to buzz?

I have done this already. Before I started this project with the cam marks lined up the crank showed 2 to 3 degrees after TDC. When I started having trouble starting, I pulled the valve cover and lined up the marks again. I still have 2 to 3 degrees showing. I attached the two pictures from when I double checked this.

My pump has an allen key headed plug there. Does this mean I cannot use a pump lucking tool? Do you need to remove the oil filter housing to remove the pump to adjust it?

Thank you for your reply.

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I have considered that the lift pump could be a culprit, but I find this extremely unlikely. I can pump it by hand and hear the over pressure valve buzz and hiss when fuel starts returning back out to the filter and return line.

I ohmed the glow plugs as well. They seem to be working fine. Like before this, the glow plug light on the dash still turns off faster after I have built some heat in the cylinders trying to start the engine compared to a completely cold start.

Thanks for the help. I ordered a remote starter switch so that I can try starting the engine by myself and watching it to see if I discover anything new. I have mostly been working by myself this time, aside from a few times my wife came out.